leadership
power is not like pie.
friday night my amazing & wise & passionate friend pam hogeweide was at the refuge for a really fun event centered on her book unladylike: resisting the injustice of inequality in the church. a listening party, it was a chance for women & men to share stories and process some of these tough issues of the oppression of women in the church. it was an amazing night & stirred up all kinds of loveliness. over the next few weeks i’ll try to write a few things that jumped out at me from what pam & others shared throughout the evening. pam didn’t specifically share this content, but a comment someone offered made me think of it, so i’ll start with this:
it’s all about power.
patriarchy in the church, in the world, isn’t just about male-centered leadership in our church system. it’s about who’s got the power because in our human-brains-who-have-to-bent-on-making-it-all-make-sense, it must be clear.
and making it clear means that we have to make it finite.
we think of it like a limited resource.
we think of it as being a certain size.
we think of it like a pie, with only so many pieces to slice up.
we think that when someone gets more power, that means someone else has to get less.
this is why when we think of men and women leading alongside each other, or any other underrepresented group stepping into greater leadership in some way, shape, or form, we default to needing to step aside to make room for others. we default to leaving the table so that others can sit at it. we default to silencing our voices so that others can use theirs.
some of that is true–when moving toward greater equality those with power will have to make some shifts to allow others to step into theirs. but if we’re not careful, we will end up in the same place we were before, where power shifts to a new group of people and the others are silenced and feel resentment and hurt.
in the kingdom of God, there’s another possibility.
power is not like pie at all.
instead, it’s more like loaves & fishes.
there’s this wild and beautiful and miraculous thing that can happen when we share it together. it multiplies. and multiplies.
on our little wacky refuge team, i have seen this in action. the more we are all more fully present, alive, engaged in who we are–male, female, in all our strengths in all our weaknesses–the more free we are, the more alive we are, the more the kingdom of God is reflected in community together. it’s been hard over the years because of a misperception of power as pie. if we live with the idea that there are only so many slices, then someone’s going to go hungry.
it doesn’t have to be that way. we need to re-think power. and respect that power diffusion doesn’t limit power but increases it.
the ways of God are not the ways of this world. that’s much of our problem. we have limited God. and we’ve shortchanged each other. our default to only living under or over another instead of alongside has jacked with our hope. we have adopted models of leadership in our churches that don’t require faith or relationship. we have adopted models of living together in community that are based on fear . we have adopted a spirit of scarcity instead of abundance.
and our ways have caused us to become controlling.
underneath control is fear.
systems of patriarchy are built on deeply grooved systems of fear and a belief that power is like pie, with only so much to go around.
Jesus came to break down these systems of fear & control & self-protection and liberate us all.
i completely understand that the world needs organizations where power must be limited, defined, and protected. that’s how it goes when there is work to be done and money to be made.
but the church should be different.
it should not reflect the power structures of the world. it should not be built on a spirit of fear and control but on a spirit of love and relationship and equality.
yes, we come with a bunch of different abilities and disabilities, and we are not all the same. it’s easy for us to say “it’s not possible”, that power issues are too complex and we’re in too deep to ever change it. but i’m one of those nutty people who is crazy enough to believe it’s possible.
i am seeing what can happen when we stop seeing power as pie and start trusting God to multiply what we’ve got and feed us all. when we stop seeing only so many seats at the table and keep adding in leaves. when we create spaces for men & women, black & white, gay & straight, rich & poor, to live alongside each other with equal value. when we empower each other in any way we can, respecting that we can’t expect everyone to be “fully alive” at the same time but what we can do is fan whatever life we can into flame.
yeah, in the world, power is like pie.
but in the kingdom of God, it’s much more like loaves and fishes, where all may eat and no one has to go hungry.
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well-behaved women won’t change the church
* most all of you have already read this post. it was part of ed cyzewski’s women in ministry series and got a lot of love. there are some really great comments over there. i had so much fun writing it and had no idea it would strike such a chord. it’s so encouraging! i am just posting it here now for my blog archives. here’s to all kinds of mis-behaving…
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Years ago, if you looked up the definition of “Christian Good Girl”, I swear my picture would be right next to it. I was so good at being good! I knew how to keep the peace. I knew how to give people what they want. I know how to put my needs last. I knew how to say all the right things at the right time to sound really spiritual. I knew how to be nice.
Although I was not raised in a Christian home, when I turned my life over to Christ and joined his team, I found that all of the people-pleasing, peace-making, good-girl skills I had learned as a child of an alcoholic raised in chaos worked perfectly in the spiritual realm as well.
I earned all kinds of praise in the churches I was in for my good-girl-ness. Kathy’s so nice. Kathy’s such a team player. Kathy’s so easy to get along with.
None of these things were hard for me to do. They were like reflexes, a natural and immediate instinct to assess the situation, and then adjust to keep the peace and maintain whatever status quo needed to be maintained.
Over the years, though, as I started to do some personal healing work and begin to look at the unhealthy patterns in my life, something profound began to shift. I started to tell the truth about my own story. I started to not worry so much about what people thought. I started to advocate for others who couldn’t use their voices yet. I started to disagree. I started to use my voice and stir the pot about change in the church.
I started to worry more about pleasing God than pleasing man.
And guess what happened? Leaders didn’t like it. They liked me a lot better when I was following the rules, playing the good-girl game. A weird and subversive shift occurred when I started showing up more honestly, more passionately as a leader. The best words I can use to describe it are: “painful silence.”
In my situation, the painful silence lead to me losing a pastoral ministry job that I loved. The reality was that I was just not “good” enough, submissive enough, to be part of that system anymore. Honestly, if I could have switched back to the Good-Girl fast enough, I might have been able to save my job. Temporarily.
But I was too far gone. My soul and passion had started to come alive and I couldn’t turn back.
As difficult as that season was for me personally, professionally, and spiritually, I am so grateful for it because I learned the most important lesson of my life as a leader:
Well-behaved women won’t change the church.
We just won’t.
Well-behaved women will keep the wheels spinning on systems that keep working, keep growing, keep moving. We will do good and honorable work that matters and helps people and makes a difference in their communities.
But we won’t change the church.
Some people think the church doesn’t need changing; they’re fine with the way things are because it works for them. But I think there a lot more of us out here than even we ourselves know–passionate women who believe the body of Christ needs much more than a face-lift to become all it’s meant to be.
Yeah, well-behaved women will not change the church.
Instead, change in the church will come from not-so-well-behaved women who are willing to risk their pride, reputations, and “being liked” to stand for what God is stirring up in their hearts.
Change in the church will come when women who are called to lead, lead, even when others don’t think they can or should.
Change in the church will come when women refuse to squelch their gifts and begin to unleash them without asking for permission first.
Change in the church will come when women passionately follow Jesus, not systems-made-in-his-name-that-do-not-reflect-his-image.
Change in the church will come when women bravely use their voices, power, and any influence they have to inspire others to be brave, too.
I admit, it’s still sometimes hard for me to not be the good-girl. I miss the safety. I miss the praise. I miss the security, even if it was false. Some days I wish I could make nice like I used to because it was so much easier then.
But the Kingdom of God was never about easy. It was never about comfort. It was never about maintaining the status-quo. It was never about playing nice.
The Kingdom of God Jesus called us to participate in creating–here, now–isn’t well-behaved.
That’s reason enough for us not to be, either.
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the refuge turns 6 years old this month! it’s so hard to believe. some days it seems like yesterday and other days it feels like decades ago. there are many things to celebrate about the past 6 years. i continue to learn more than i ever bargained for about God, life, love, friendship, and leadership. some days i still want to run for the hills, but i’m learning something here that i’m not sure i’d ever learn somewhere else.
for me, one of the most important and beautiful parts of life together here has been what it looks like for men & women to live, learn, love, and lead alongside each other as equals, as brothers and sisters and friends. often, i am in situations where i realize how rare this really is.
i respect that there are definitely places for only women’s groups & only men’s groups. but there is so much we can’t learn when we are always segregated, relegated only to being above or below one another, or full of fear.
i wish more men and women would bravely dive into the deep end of learning how to live alongside each other as leaders, brothers & sisters, and friends.
there aren’t a lot of great models of people sharing power, learning to be friends, and deepening connection across sexes “in church.” one of the greatest gifts i received in the life of the refuge has been meeting other people who are practicing “alongside” in their lives, their ministries. they are diffusing power, developing cross-gender friendships, and cultivating intentional community where men & women are really equals. they are few but growing in number. their example inspires and challenges me to push against all of the voices that say “it’s not possible” and continue to live out the dream despite the obstacles.
here’s what i keep learning about men and women “alongside “ each other:
“alongside” heals shame. shame has tried to ruin me, and so many other people i know. inequality perpetuates shame for those “underneath” others. having to step up and live equally as a leader forces me to reckon with my shame. the first few years of the refuge i felt so bad about leading–and wanting to lead–because i had been taught i wasn’t supposed to. also, “alongside” has helped shame from my past. being honest with safe women friends was a huge start, but even more healing came when my male friends knew my real story, too, and help me release it. to heal, i need not only mothers & sisters but fathers & brothers, too.
“alongside” is a reflection of the kingdom. Jesus said that the kingdom of God was possible now. that we didn’t have to wait until heaven to experience God’s reality. Jesus blasts hierarchical divides and cuts through the things that separate and divide. equality is freeing. as we step into side by side relationships, the kingdom is reflected in both sexes and we participate in Christ’s healing of the brokenness that Genesis 3 brought into the world.
“alongside” teaches us courage. i always say “courage is doing hard things scared.” alongside as equals requires courage. when my husband and i moved from a complementarian-ish relationship to an egalitarian one, it freaked both of us out. we were scared because we knew how to do the way we had been doing it. when my friend karl called me to co-lead pastor with him instead of be an associate, it freaked me out. i knew in my heart it was the right thing but i was terrified to not have the fallback of him being in charge of me somehow, the only model i knew as an evangelical woman. the first time my friend shared with me the reality of his sexual addiction, it freaked me out, that level of sharing. but i knew that moment was a holy one. i needed to be brave, to stay in, to listen, to learn.
“alongside” requires faith. i’m constantly reminded how much of my christian life has not been about faith (even though it sounded like it) but rather about control (as a way for managing fear). segregation between sexes is a way of staying in control. integration and learning how to be more whole alongside each other requires walking out in faith, traveling a path without clear instructions. i recently heard someone say, “you’ll never stub your toe standing still.” we only stub our toe when we’re moving somewhere, practicing, trying, walking. oh, how many times i’ve stubbed my toe over the past few years! but each and every time i have learned something about God, myself, others. faith is never strengthened staying still.
so that’s what i’m learning these days in the deep end of the pool. diving in was one of the best things i’ve ever done.
God, give us courage to live alongside each other equally as men & women, brothers & sisters, lovers, and friends. we want to be a reflection of you.
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ps: it’s not too late to register for a challenging & inspiring gathering centered on cross-gender friendships called when jesus met mary: a sacred friendship gathering. it’s friday and saturday, april 27th & 28th in chicago. i am really looking forward to being part of this and meeting some of you in real life there, too!
pps: i’m on a bit of a blog-roll these days, writing more than i have in a while. i’ve learned in these moments the best thing is to go for it and stay current, otherwise the moment’s often gone. tomorrow i’m finally sharing a post i’ve been meaning to with a bunch of good stuff to check out. on monday i am really looking forward to a new post-easter series called “reconstruction after deconstruction”, 8 posts centered on the brutal but beautiful process of restoring faith after loss & shifts.
Read Morekings.
yesterday was palm sunday. i love the easter story; in fact, this week is my very favorite week of the entire year. like advent & the anticipation of Jesus’ birth, i love the upside-downness of it all. Jesus, the promised king, the messiah, all grown up, enters into jerusalem to a roar of “hosannas!” and the thrill of impending victory. people were excited, inspired, drawn, hopeful. they were ready for him to kick ass and take names, to topple the empire and restore justice.
he’ll make all that was wrong right.
but as the week progresses, things radically shifted. he had stirred the pot too strongly. he’d upset too many apple carts. he challenged the status quo far too deeply.
he started doing all kinds of un-king-like things.
he touched lepers.
he dined with sinners.
he called out religiosity on its hypocrisy.
he told everybody they needed to be last, not first.
he said that love trumped all.
that the way up toward God was to go down to the places of real life, real pain.
that God desired mercy, not sacrifice.
and then, next thing they knew he was washing feet, talking about dying, telling us we needed each other in all of this.
wait a second! this wasn’t the kind of king-like behavior we were hoping for.
things went bad to worse after the foot washing. he was arrested, tried, and sentenced to die. and then, instead of getting off the cross and saving the day that way he actually died.
right there in front of them.
he was sacrificed. he appeared powerless, defeated.
all that excitement for nothing.
some king he was!
sure, we know a few days later, the tides turned yet again and he wasn’t dead but alive. appearing to his friends. telling them some of the same crazy things he had been telling them before he died. the spirit of God, alive and well, at work in people’s lives ever since.
but the truth is that it’s always been a confusing story. one that makes us scratch our heads a little and wonder “why did God choose to do it this way when there were a lot of better, more clear, easier-to-understand, more really-king-like options?”
as i reflect on the beginning of holy week and our journey toward easter, i think so many of the same human dynamics are at play today. sociology is powerful. our demands for strong, powerful, charismatic, certain leaders is alive & well. just look around at big rocking churches. there aren’t a lot of people leading them who are washing other people’s feet, dining with lepers, and telling mind-boggling, confusing stories that has everyone shaking their head, going “huh?”
rather, what makes most of them strong is their certainty, their power, their charisma, their “king-like” qualities.
my theory is that even though we know Jesus is the real king, we are still desperately looking for one here that makes more sense than Jesus. pastors, leaders, podcasters, writers, speakers, someone to tell us what to do & think, what’s okay & what’s not okay, what the scripture says & doesn’t say, who’s in & who’s out.
we are drawn to power & charisma, not the beatitudes-infused kind Jesus embodied and preached, but a worldly power that keeps us underneath so we can feel more protected, comfortable, contained.
we are addicted to inspiration.
but the gospel was never supposed to be protected, comfortable, or contained. or inspiring in a sit-and-listen-and-feel-better-afterward kind of way.
what makes it the gospel is its wildness, rawness, unexpectedness, and challenge to us. that God shows up in the least likely places instead of the most. that he pierces the darkness with unexplainable light. that we should follow his weird & wild ways, not men’s self-serving ones. that in order to be born again (and again) we need to die yet again (and then over again).
when i was in el salvador this past week with my family i had a lot of time to think & write & read; one of the things i thought about a lot is how desperate we are for an earthly king. i am sometimes, too. i want someone to swoop in and tell me what to do and rescue me from my doubts & questions. i want someone to put me & God & the whole kit and kaboodle back in a box so my faith can somehow be more manageable.
but then the feeling always subsides & i realize i do have a king.
a humble one, who says that i’m blessed when i realize my spiritual poverty (not when i’ve got it all nailed down).
a gentle one, who whispers to me that he understands my pain & struggle because he was human, too.
a wild & crazy one, who keeps reminding me that his ways will always be counter-cultural & harder but also better.
a not-the-way-kings-usually-look king, who says he’s not here to boss me around and make all my troubles go away, but rather that he’d be present in the midst of them.
a counter-cultural king, who calls me to spiritual poverty, mourning, mercy, meekness, justice and love as the path to freedom.
my hope is that over time we’d learn to quit crowning earthly kings, giving our time and money and souls to them, thinking they will save the day.
rather, i hope we can pick up our crosses and follow the one who really can.
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ps: i really love this post by sarah bessey that i think points to what we expect of ourselves, too, when it comes to this king-hero-strength-means-big-and-amazing issue: in which i have an evangelical hero complex.
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out of the mouths of co-pastors, final post
this is the final post in this series on co-pastoring, some thoughts from some friends who are doing the work in their own contexts. to me, co-pastoring reflects different parts working together the way it’s supposed to be–one’s weakness is another’s strength. it can come in all different shapes & forms, but the most important distinctive is leaders alongside each other as equals without one person at the top.
i know this is a very specialized conversation and not for everyone, but i hope that some people open up to its possibility over time as part of planting new trees. seeds do matter.
here are final thoughts from some of my co-pastor friends. read part one if you haven’t already.
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what are you learning about yourself through co-pastoring?
To over communicate, to withhold judgment, the “whole’s” best interest is the priority. – Angie
I have learned that I still have many rough edges and I am not as smart as I thought I was. I have learned that anything worth doing is costly on a very personal level and that telling the truth of my life as well as that of the other is a life long exploration that requires vulnerability and humble commitment. I really would not want to pastor any other way. – Deborah
I’m learning that I can be trusted with responsibility. I’m realizing that my way isn’t always the best way, and even if it is, it’s okay to do something else. - Donna
I’ve only done it this way, so whatever I am learning is the way you do it. Personally I think what I have learned is regular meetings are vital so that everyone can keep abreast of everything. Also we are learning to rely on each other so that we can naturally take days off. – Geoff
I am learning that I am a person who has always sought after roles where I am in authority. When I was a child I wanted to be a policemen because I thought they were respected. As I grew older and became a Christian I wanted to be a Pastor. By giving up that authority role, I realize how much I craved it and how addicted I was to power. I am learning that in my weakness there is more strength than I could ever muster on my own. – John
Community is good for me – and I can let go of my business-wisdom and stop trying to apply it to my church role. – Martin
what are you learning about christian community through co-pastoring?
Community can be and is much more than people ever give it credit for. There are no models out there like our model, so there is no one to get help from. We are mostly alone in this, in the ideas and the practice of it, and sometimes that is hard. – Angie
Inside of the smaller community, the co-pastor model gives us a visible symbol of cooperation, inclusion and love. It also tells others that involvement is welcomed. They rise to the occasion and are eager to participate. In the greater Christian community, well that’s a different story. Most are uncomfortable with the co-equal co-pastoring model. One local mega church called us the three-headed monster. They trust the traditional model. – Deborah
I’m learning that truly being a “Christian community” is a beautiful thing. We have an opportunity as co-pastors to bring our unique styles to the table and help others discover and lean into their own unique style in an effort to make our greater community a better place. I’m finding that to be a pretty cool. – Donna
With my own studies, I am learning the value that this method has on communicating a revolutionary power structure – Geoff
I am learning that people in Christian community seem to want that authoritative leader to tell them what to do and how to do it. When people are subjected to the kind of grace found within shared leadership, they are taken aback by it. They sometimes cannot grasp it. They ask questions like “Who is in charge here?” After a while though they get it and they grow to appreciate the submission of their leaders to each other and the community at large. – John
Full responsibility without full power is a very counter-cultural thing. When someone tries to make me take responsibility for something I don’t have control over at my day-job, I fight hard to avoid letting that happen. But in the church it seems right. In the same way that community means taking responsibility for one another’s welfare, being a co-pastor makes the running of the church something that I am responsible for without giving me the ability to make the church in my image. I like that. It reminds me of a conversation my wife and I had in the run-up to our wedding. We were advised by someone, “Don’t have a joint bank account, you’ll feel like the money doesn’t belong to either of you!” We didn’t say anything at the time, but we both thought, “That sounds exactly as it should be!” We are currently thinking about ways to break down the barriers even further - this time between co-pastor and ‘member’ – to drive things to an even more communal structure. We just have to work out how to express what we mean in words. It’s easy to think, but harder to express. – Martin
what do you say to critics who claim “you have to have one person who makes the final decision” or ” you have to have one head”?
First I give them the middle finger, ha ha! Once, I said to one of my professors we had a flat leadership style and was told it didn’t work. Well, then I’m not sure what we have been doing successfully for 13 years. I usually put my head down and do what I was ordained to do…serve my community. - Angie
What is their theology around the Trinity? If they believe that there is submission within the Trinity, I probably will not get much of a hearing. However, if they believe in co-equality of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we might have something to discuss. I would cite Jesus at the Garden of Gethsemane–“I wish that you would allow this cup to pass from me, but nevertheless, not my will but yours be done.” Right here Jesus, the sole leader of the movement, was agreeing with God that the leadership reigns of the church should pass into the hands of a band of social renegades even though they were not ready. They really didn’t get it until Pentecost. Jesus agreed with God that the time for his voice was done and the time for their voices was at hand. In the Acts 15 we see the counsel of Jerusalem as the ruling body of the church… no single leader! (I wrote about this in my dissertation). The idea is that the Holy Spirit was now the leader of the church… as pastors we are merely facilitators of the work of God. Co-pastoring keeps leadership cognizant of this fact. - Deborah
The Bridge has thrived for over 13 years now without that one person, so it is doable. In some ways it’s the easy way out of having one person as the “head.” By having co-pastors, we get to walk through all sides of an issue and usually one of us will spot something that the others missed. We then have to come up with that “final decision” and we don’t act unless we are in agreement, which I think makes it much harder than if one person were doing it. So go ahead, take the easy way, and let someone control your community. I just want to know who keeps that person accountable for keeping the communities best interest as their top priority? - Donna
I smile and tell them okay. If they aren’t interested then oh well. – Geoff
Why? What are you afraid of? Is it that without some person in control we cannot trust that God will lead? Is it that for some reason in a community of talented and inspired people only one has the right or responsibility to make decisions? Is it that throughout history God has only spoken through one person? - John
In practice, we find that whoever has the most time, or the biggest stake, or the strongest opinion will make a final decision (although that is not always the same person for different circumstances). But I think the quieter voice, the minority opinion, the outside perspective will always be heard and considered. There needs to be real community and mutual respect and love between the co-pastors, though, otherwise it would be all too easy for power struggles to upset the balance. - Martin
if someone was considering co-pastoring their faith community–whatever shape or form that might take–what is one word of advice you’d give them?
Put your money where your mouth is! Be willing to make mistakes and even fail. Say sorry for the mistakes you make. If you don’t, then you will fail. Or worse, do what has always been done, like create more church causalities because you are to afraid to experiment and try new ways of doing things. - Angie
Run! Said with a smile on my face, but run towards it, not away. If you have the opportunity to practice what I’ve been learning the old Scottish clans called being a “leader of leaders,” take it on, try it out, and trust that your community will be stronger for it. Expect a learning curve, as our culture is ingrained with the concept of a “head” pastor to do all things, be comfortable in your own skin, know who you are and how you are wired, and learn the same of your co-pastors. - Donna
Find someone you are committed to and will continue to respect. And when you don’t want to either be committed or continue to respect the other, do it anyway until God tells you to go to Africa. - Geoff
Get your Co-Pastors to buy into it 100%, then have them figure out how you are to do it (roll it out), and then submit yourself to the process 100%. Let go, and seriously, let God. - John
If you don’t have a relationship where the current decision-maker can be challenged, a change will probably be difficult. If that relationship is there it may be a structure that works to better represent what is happening and the way everyone wants it to work. - Martin
Be sure that you are serving with people that you really love and believe in. That love and commitment will be tested to the nth degree. Dream big! – Deborah
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thanks, my friends. great thoughts, and i hope that any of you reading who are either co-pastoring now or considering it in some way, shape or form, find some strength & encouragement from these thoughts.
what questions or thoughts do you have about shared leadership?
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out of the mouths of co-pastors, part 1 of 2
one thing i am notorious for is starting projects and taking forever to finish them! if i have a deadline, i do. but if i don’t (and when it’s your own blog you can do whatever you want to do), i’m toast. finally, i’d like to finish the co-pastoring series i started last year. you can review the other posts here:
- why i believe in co-pastoring
- some thoughts on co-pastoring, part 1
- co-pastoring, a video conversation, part 2
- here’s what it looks like here, part 3
i believe that pastors come in all different forms and we need to keep re-thinking the word pastor.
i also passionately believe that a ministry form that is far underutilized and encouraged is co-pastoring, sharing the load of pastoring a community among equal peers.
over the course of the past 6 years in the life of the refuge, i have met some wonderful people dedicated to shared leadership. they have taught me so much and when we are together, we share in the common feeling–shared leadership is hard but oh-so-beautiful work and we wish more people leading churches & communities would consider it.
instead of always hearing from me here about why co-pastoring matters, i wanted you to hear from them.
meet angie fadel, donna van horn & geoff neill from the bridge in portland. john martinez & martin turnidge from the distillery in new york. and deborah loyd who is one of the pioneers of co-pastoring and has years of experience & wisdom we can learn from. i asked them some questions about co-pastoring & here is part one of two, of their responses.
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what prompted you to co-pastor in the first place?
I never set out to pastor. I always set out to love people, and that’s what I do. In the Bridge we choose pastors from within. What that means is that I was already doing the work of a pastor (caring for the people and helping carry the weight of community). This natural work I was doing was acknowledged by the pastors at the time; I was asked if I was interested in being ordained. – Angie
It seemed to me that pastoring put too much of a burden on the character and personality of one person. There were very few leaders in the Old Testament that were capable of “handling it all” and of the many who tried there were deep moral failures. A team is much more unwielding, and in the long run there is more flexibility and ability to stay fresh with God. - Deborah
God wouldn’t leave me alone. – Donna
I was asked on staff - Geoff
I saw other people doing it and wanted that for our community. I used to be the Senior Pastor and decided to share the lead with those that wanted to help out. – John
I had a desire for less hierarchical ‘modern’ structure and to diminish the risk of burn-out for the lead pastor. – Martin
why do you think it’s such an important model of leadership to consider?
I am a huge fan of the flat leadership style (yes it does work!). We all carry the weight together, get paid the same, and are able to use our individual gifts to the full. Plus, our families are not a causality of church…it helps us put family first – Angie
As leaders come and go individually, they learn the DNA of the group as the group is at that time. This makes community re-incarnations possible. The group never gets stale because it is always re-inventing itself. In co-equal pastoring, the use of power is healthier. Co-equal co-pastoring attracts people who are less ego-invested in leading. This is safer for the congregation/community. These kinds of leaders are more willing to give power away when it is appropriate. They seem to have a better understanding that power is about giving voice to the voiceless, serving the under-served, speaking up, etc. – Deborah
We like to say around here at The Bridge that when the “sh*it hits the fan,” we aren’t dealing with it alone. This model intrinsically changes the dynamics of a community by creating an idea of shared power that isn’t just talked about in theory, but is actively practiced. It creates a ripple effect as people can see us work thru our differences, knowing that their best interest is what drives us… not our own. – Donna
I think given the job, it is very helpful to have peers on staff rather than someone who holds the power and those that are subservient. It also is a real testimony to where our power has to come from as ministers of Jesus’ new world. It means cooperation, respect, and a committee sort of format. – Geoff
I think that if you claim to be a community that is about including others and listening to other’s voices, then it makes sense that the leadership team models this. - John
if you believe that God’s will is best understood and interpreted in community, it makes sense to ensure that community is present in all areas of the church including the pastorate. not that it is the right way or the only way – but it is definitely worth considering. – Martin
what is (or was) the hardest part about it?
Sharing the responsibility. I tend to take on more than I need to or is healthy. – Angie
Leaders must learn how to protect their fellow leaders and it is hard to know when it gets to the point of co-dependancy. You learn very quickly about each others weaknesses. Decision making can be cumbersome. Sometimes consensus is difficult. Communication is primary. There’s a tension between group consensus and individual perspectives. Also, when the congregation has two or even three co-pastors they assume that if they tell one pastor their story, all will know it. This may or may not be true. This can be confusing for congregants as well as pastors. – Deborah
It was hard at first to have confidence in my opinion, as I didn’t have the same level of experience that the existing co-pastors had. Now I have found my voice. I’ve also discovered that giving up control and not having to be “right” all of the time is the hardest part. - Donna
To get the pay scale to reflect co-pastor reality – Geoff
The hardest part about it for me was giving up my dreams for the dreams of the community. This was a little like a death in the family for me. My dreams for the community had to be pushed aside for the dreams of the whole, and I was not used to having to give those things up. The results of course are investing in shared dreams with my fellow pastors and celebrating deeply when our dreams come true together. – John
Deciding what to do when there is a difference of opinion. Is the final decision made by anyone-can-veto or majority rule, or the former-lead-pastor-says-so or deferred to the board. – Martin
what is (or was) the best part about it?
People that have my back and I have theirs. We share this responsibility which helps with the sometimes unbearable weight. No one needs to be the head honcho. I have never been in a place where I am equal as a woman and it is a non-issue. Once I leave the safety of my community it’s a different story, but within we are equal. - Angie
Each person can give their best and leave their weak areas alone. Chances are there is someone else on the team that can jump in. The burden is spread out so a leaders time and energy is more personally manageable. There’s far greater creativity in problem solving. The bonds of friendship among co-pastors can be strong and supportive, and the mutual accountability and encouragement helps. There is also freedom to opt out, meaning that if one leader feels like they want or need to move on or take on a different role, the community doesn’t suffer an identity crisis or a leadership crisis based on abandonment. These transitions can be seamless. - Deborah
Getting to spend time every week with my co-pastors, seriously, they are amazing people with incredible insights! It’s nice knowing they have my back, I don’t have to be “strong” or have all the answers… or any answers for that matter! - Donna
The best thing about it is to have peers and partners that are better than you on some things and how naturally the different jobs flow out from there. – Geoff
What a load off. Sharing responsibility with my co-pastors is awesome. I am not “The Guy” anymore and everyone is full aware of their impact on the community. It is wonderful. – John
A genuine sharing of responsibility – not just delegation which traces power and responsibility back to a single person. This is OUR church, OUR family, OUR budget to balance, OUR bills to pay, OUR gathering to organize, OUR coffee to buy, OUR space to clean. – Martin
* * * * *
reading these responses was so encouraging to me, and a reminder of why i so highly value co-pastoring! it’s also a reminder to keep working hard to make sure we’re not defaulting back to co-pastoring in theory but not in practice. it takes work to ensure the entire load is shared together, and the values we hold dear to are being infused into the life of our community in every way we can.
i’d love to hear any of your thoughts on this.
we’ll wrap this up with part two on friday, with four more questions. plus, feel free to ask any that come to mind as you are reading & exploring this idea.
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