leadership
plant new trees.
“then God said, “let us make human beings in our image, to be like us.” – genesis 1:26, NLT
this past week i saw a flurry of facebook posts about john piper’s latest words about masculine christianity. i am pretty out of the blog-reading circuit because there are only so many hours in the day and mine are jam packed with people & kids & more kids & more people. at the same time, i love that challenging conversations are happening and social media is a powerful tool to raise awareness.
i did not listen to john piper’s presentation or link to the blog post. i don’t have the stomach or time for it, but i got the cliff notes version from rachel’s blog. i like her idea of helping people consider other views of God that aren’t specifically masculine. i have no trouble with God being masculine. the trouble i have is assuming God is primarily masculine because Jesus was a guy and chose 12 male disciples and then building entire systems upon that thought, utterly dismissing a whole other half of God’s image and essence. along with that half, i am certain we’re missing a whole lot of other things about God that we have been afraid to explore because the systems & churches we have been part of have kept God so contained.
john piper makes caricatured roles for men and women, over-simplifying the image of God placed in each of us. this denies not only women of their fullness, but men as well.
whether we want to admit it or not, piper’s theology is deeply embedded into most of standard evangelical christianity. it just is. men do certain things and women do other certain things. if each sex would just step into “God’s intention for them” (“appropriate” social roles), everything will work just fine and everyone will be “free.”
when God created humans, God made us in in the fullness of God’s image. not half, not part. yes, we are unique and different, and that’s why we need each other to more accurately reflect the fullness of God’s image. the body of Christ is a reflection of God. if that’s the case, then why is half missing, devalued, and thought of as less somehow?
change in “the church” is coming. a holy stirring is happening and many people are starting to call it for what it is–oppression, sexism, and a fear-based theology that perpetuates injustice. however, it has become so innate that merely trying to shake it out of our system isn’t going to cut it. we’re not a few awesome blog posts away from changing these deeply grooved systems of injustice.
when we start thinking about change, there are two natural reactions to it that we think of first:
1. prune off what’s not working. if we can prune some of these injustices out of “the church”, we’ll be okay. this is the idea of changing systems by making some adjustments here and there that will shift things. raise awareness, start to think differently about it, help leaders become more sensitive to issues of equality, influence change from within.
2. raze the ground completely. knock it all down. it’s flawed, it doesn’t work, it harms people. the whole thing is so jacked up that we just need to walk away from it entirely.
i feel strongly that alone, #1 just won’t work. i’m not saying that some systems can’t be changed from within but i think it’s a pretty brutal road and will require leaders who are willing to shrink their churches & ministries, pay some serious emotional, spiritual, and financial costs, and lose all kinds of things they are used to gaining. honestly, that’s just not super likely on a wide scale. human nature & self protection will strongly work against such courage. pruning also dismisses the magnitude of the problem. we’re talking about deeply grooved systems of injustice that go back to the beginning. the root system is strong; a little tweaking isn’t going to bring full equality for anyone.
i also believe that blowing the whole thing up isn’t really an option. it works for some people. they believe in certain scriptural interpretations & hold dearly to their tenents. i may disagree, but i don’t think that means there aren’t valuable things that happen for people through their churches and so scrapping the whole thing isn’t really fair or respectful.
i think there’s a much better option:
plant new trees.
trees that have the roots of equality from the very beginning.
trees that gain nourishment from a free-er gospel and soil that is enriched with freedom and hope instead of fear and absolute certainty.
trees that have men and women and rich and poor and educated and undeducated and black and white and gay and straight all tangled up together from the beginning.
trees that are tended to gently and naturally instead of pumped with unnatural growth agents & pesticides that try to advance the progression of development to “catch up faster” to other churches that will always have the advantage of time and power on their side.
trees that get their strength from the beatitudes not their latest and greatest how-to-grow books and conferences.
trees that are well-watered by people who are tired of talk and are ready for action.
trees that over time will flourish and bring shade and fruit and all kinds of other goodness for generations to come in the communities & cultures where they are planted.
a diverse ecosystem of trees that more accurately reflect the fullness of God’s image.
these trees can be all kinds of shapes and sizes–individual relationships, groups, churches, ministries, organizations–little pockets of love & freedom cropping up all over that influence people and model a better way, a free-er way, an equal way, a more “oh, that’s what Jesus looks like” way.
yeah, pruning won’t cut it. razing isn’t an option. let’s get planting. i have a feeling some of you are really good gardeners.
* * * * *
here are a few other links i wanted to highlight:
many of you have probably read it, but if you haven’t check out rachel held evans’ post this week: they were right (and wrong) about the slippery slope. i slipped off the slope a long time ago and sometimes tell those that wonder, “yeah, i completely slipped off the slope and somehow found the most solid ground i’ve ever stood on.”
our walking wounded online class starts monday february 6th. registrations are possible until then, so if you or someone you know want to be part, you can sign up at that link. it’s going to be good! i also am not sure when we’re planning on running it again so now’s the right time if you’re on the fence.
i wrote a little post for provoketive magazine last month that i forgot to share called stories that matter.
lastly, i posted this on facebook & it made some pretty good rounds, but if you missed it, here’s the trailer from my awesome friend pam hogeweide’s new book, just released at the end of january–unladylike: resisting the injustice of inequality in the church:
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let’s be friends. oh wait, we don’t know how to!
“there is nothing on this earth to be more prized than true friendship.”
- st. thomas aquinas
remember that book, “all i ever needed i learned in kindergarten”? sure, some of what we learned when we were five would be helpful to us as grownups. but i’m also going to make a supposition that even by age five, weird friendship stuff may have already seeped in. some boys stop playing so freely with girls. the power dynamics of who rules the playground kick into full swing. cliques form. the weak are often already culled out. it looks different for everyone, and there’s no question we are a lot purer when we are five than when we are 35, but the same fact remains–friendship is hard!
cultivating healthy, strengthening, encouraging, equal friendships is an art, not science. and a very lost art at that.
in fact, i feel quite sure an honest poll would reveal that most people don’t have the kinds of friendships they long for. that most don’t really know how to do them in a way that works long-term. that some feel as inadequate now as we did when we were in junior high, even though they fake it better. that many don’t even know what healthy friendship is supposed to look or feel like. and that it seems there’s never enough time to develop them. i am also going to take a leap and say that in the christian world, it’s even worse. there are countless other weird dynamics at play in christian friendships that even further complicate what’s already complicated.
i know the feeling. i used to stink at real friendship. i’ve always had a lot of friends. i am a loyal person and have always hung on to friends–both male & female–through thick and thin. but it wasn’t until i was in my late 20′s that i started to become comfortable enough in my own skin to actually be the kind of friend i wanted. the kind that receives instead of just giving. the kind that is honest & raw instead of holding back all the time. the kind that makes a really concerted effort to nurture the relationship instead of expecting it to drop out of the sky.
18 years later, I’m still learning. it’s not the easiest thing for me to do. at heart, i like independence, not interdependence.
and real friendship requires interdependence.
a give-and-take. grace. intention. vulnerability. risk.
in church, we are taught a lot about believing, knowing, and worshiping certain things and acting certain ways. even now, with a lot of focus on missional living emerging in many churches, which i think is a good thing, a crucial ingredient is usually often missing– how to just be a friend.
an honest friend.
an equal friend.
a vulnerable friend.
a long-haul friend.
there are a lot of forces working deeply against friendship (not just cross-gender friendship but all forms–men with men, women with women, and across ages & differences, too.)
power. we know how to be under people or above people but rarely do we know how to live beside them. it’s a natural force of our Genesis 3 human-ness. often without thinking, we look for someone to control us or someone to control. if we feel “less than” or “more than” others it messes with real freedom. this is so unconscious for us that we don’t even know we’re doing it.
shame. sometimes we are scared to be fully known because if people really knew us we’re quite sure they wouldn’t want to be friends anymore. we give part of us but not all of us because full honesty is too risky. but honest sharing with a friend who can honor it brings one of the greatest rewards of friendship–the experience of grace. also, some people feel embarrassed that they never learned how to develop healthy friendships and it feels weird & awkward to be trying now. (it’s never too late, i know that for sure!)
independence. many have learned through damaging past experiences that “the only person we can really trust is ourselves.” and even if we don’t trust ourselves, we at least know what to expect. a “trust God and God alone (by yourself)” mentality is especially pervasive in christian circles.
fear. we don’t naturally like to make ourselves vulnerable . we don’t like to get hurt. and somehow we know we will if we get too close to another person. our natural tendency to avoid pain is always at play. i’ve lost a few friends along the way, and it hurts. a lot. but it was still worth it in the end because of what i learned through them. in cross-gender friendships, fear is even higher because for the most part people say it isn’t possible without sexual weirdness.
yikes, those are some strong forces working against us! when i look at this list, though, i have hope. i have seen it up-close-and-personal in my life & many others–healthy friendship is so possible! but much deeper than only my experience, these four things–power, shame, independence, and fear–are what Jesus calls us to break down so we can get to the better thing–love.
humility, grace, trust, and peace are all part of love and antidotes to power, shame, independence, and fear.
that’s really what friendship is–loving another human being more freely, more purely, more honestly, more fully. and being loved by another more freely, more purely, more honestly, more fully. it’s about loving and being loved.
and that, my friends, is scary stuff!
we’d much rather talk about almost anything else. and do most anything else.
and it’s probably why we need to focus on it the most.
i think a task for the body of Christ is to begin actively showing people how to be friends in all kinds of shapes & sizes. men with women, men with men, women with women. to break down systems of power and honor what it means to be equals, created in the image of God. to find ways to really heal from shame instead of just talk like we have and become more free & healthy human beings. to learn what it means to be interdependent instead of independent or codependent. to have courage to push through our inadequacies & fears and stumble & bumble into new ways of living together as friends. friends with God, with others, with ourselves. they are all mixed up together.
oh there are so many beautiful things to learn alongside each other!
what are you learning about friendship these days?
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ps: next post is part two and is a little more practical, but i wanted to get this out while it was swirling around in my head.
pss: my friend dan brennan is an advocate and teacher for sacred friendships. he continues to call people to break down the walls that divide us and bravely engage in deep, intimate friendship with one another. in april the first sacred friendship gathering centered on cross-gender friendships is happening in chicago; i feel privileged to be sharing there and would love for you to come be part of this important conversation! if you can’t attend but would like to help someone else have a chance to go, scholarships are greatly needed so that as many people as possible can be challenged to consider the practice of deeper friendship. also, they are pulling this off as a labor of love on a shoestring budget, so let dan know if you can help!
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becoming better human beings
in the first few years of the refuge there were days when i really just wanted to throw in the towel. i often wonder why in the $*!^$&!(!)# i care so much about all of this. really. in the big scheme of things we are a little blip in the universe, just a teeny weeny pocket of love that is trying to scrape by and do the best we can. in the life of church-planting cycles, we are survivors. we have survived what many communities haven’t been able to weather. we have grown up over the past 5 years, not in numbers but in depth & width & in all kinds of ways that aren’t really measurable without kingdom-kinds-of-eyes. but we’re still young in all kinds of ways because that’s how faith & life is. if there was one thing i have learned in the past few years when i stopped always coming-to-the-edge-of-just throwing-in-the-towel, it’s that this kind of living requires a long, long view. it means weathering deep bumpy, rocky valleys in the road and having to climb big mountains without the best gear. it means letting go of needing everyone to understand and living in the tension of great disapproval. it means trusting that God is at work even though we may never see it. it means learning how to become less codependent and more free. it means having to chant the serenity prayer every day over and over and over again. it means holding on and hanging in and doing whatever we can do to remember that Jesus told us that this kind of life would be hard. but despite its hazards, it is beautiful.
at the same time, it poses another honest question–why work this hard? seriously. i know i have many friends who look in at what we’re doing and think it’s all a little nutty, how much we pour into this wild little community when we could take such an easier path. why have we chosen a road that’s so freaking messy?
trust me, i ask that question all the time. i imagine a nice office, an administrative assistant, making above the minimum wage, and being able to leave my work there instead of drag it home. but i then i just laugh because that is so not me. it never has been and it never will be. and this is somehow the little blip i’m dedicated to. that’s it. it’s not for everyone, that is for sure. but i am learning here what i don’t think i could learn if it were easier. i am not learning how to be a better speaker, a more efficient leader, a more effective manager, or a stronger fundraiser. those things are not inherently bad, but they are much easier than learning how to be a healthier human being.
i feel like that’s what i’m learning through being part of this community. how to be a healthier human being.
able to love and be loved. able to withstand adversity and still cling to Hope. able to hold on to what needs to be held on to and let of what’s not mine. able to laugh and cry at the same time. able to be mad at myself and kind to myself in the same breath. able to feel & hurt and able to receive healing & help. able to realize God is God and i’m human. able to have limits and also possibilities. able to fall down and slowly get back up. able to survive conflict and not have it kill me. able to be a friend & have friends. able to rely on others & also rely on God. able to trust. able to recognize limitations & able to still dream. able to give & able to receive. able to be vulnerable & allow myself to hurt.
i don’t think many churches teach this stuff. and i know why. it doesn’t sell. it’s not too inviting or comfortable.
but i think that’s what “church” should be about, really.
helping people become better human beings.
people of love, mercy, justice, hope, and healing. people who are willing to learn and fail and try again. people who focus on our own logs instead of others specks. people who lay down stones. people who are brave and scared at the same time. people who don’t give up but rely on God to sustain them through the twists and turns. people who are humble and willing to do the hard stuff and celebrate the good stuff. people willing to learn.
there are lots of different ways to learn it, it just so happens this is the particular Jesus school i happen to be enrolled in.
so that’s where i am at today. grateful for my humanity and God’s divinity. grateful for long-haul community. grateful for the 12 steps. grateful for the beatitudes. grateful for my dear & faithful friends who are helping me become a better human being.
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co-pastoring part 3: here’s what it looks like here
i am in the middle of a series on co-pastoring or shared leadership, just processing some thoughts out loud about it because I think it is far under-looked as a potential model for leadership in communities & organizations. you can watch the first two video conversations here:
as i mentioned before, the refuge has always had a shared leadership model & our team has shifted over the past five years. right now, we have four people—me, karl, stacy, and mike. the thing I bring to the team is the glue & a passion for relationship, care & advocacy. i’m the mommy bird always trying to get the kids to fly. karl, who you saw in the previous two videos, is a strong visionary & amazing teacher and has experience in all kinds of churches & ministries over the years. he and I share a lot of the primary moving-things-along-from-the-front-leadership kinds of things. stacy moved to colorado to be part of the refuge two years ago (after first being a carnival blog reader, yay!) and has brought so much love & life to our community. she transitioned onto our team a year ago. she’s awesome with kids & youth & has a huge passion for healing. outside of the refuge she’s a grief therapist for kids & families. mike has been part of our team from the beginning and is the best chaplain/care pastor ever created. he brings a quiet, faithful strength & is a healer.
there are many other pastors & leaders at the refuge who aren’t part of our team. their voice is just as important but the four of us spend a little more time and focused energy on nurturing the life of our community during this season. i always think of ourselves as catalysts, people called to cultivate the space—in all kinds of different ways–for growth & transformation. but without our entire community, none of it is possible. none of us consider this a job.
i asked the three of them a few questions about co-pastoring:
- how’d you end up becoming a co-pastor at the refuge?
It was a dream I had for a long, long time. I really feel like the opportunity was handed to me, and it was not that hard to form. I feel “lucky” to have been a part of the start. – Karl
I was asked to come on board a little over a year ago, and I was so wide-eyed and bushy tailed in terms of what it would actually look like. So much of the naiveness has long since faded, haha, and in its place has been so much depth and growth. – Stacy
It kind of just happened. Kathy and Karl asked me to come with them and be an elder in a new church plant, but pretty much from the start they used the word “pastor” when describing my position. With their encouragement I leaned into something I never envisioned nor felt capable of doing. I love it! – Mike
- if someone asked “what does co-pastoring look like at the refuge?” what would you tell them?
What makes it hard for folks to understand is that they are usually thinking of how the function works. I would say we are primarily friends trying to be better friends and along the way we mutually participate in helping nurture a faith community. I would emphasize that pastoring happens along the way to being better friends, brothers and sisters. This a new way for me to think about it, but really resonates so far. – Karl
I really like Karl’s response. I would also add that it alleviates so much pressure in a hard or complicated situation to ask “Can I bring this back to the team, and see what some of their thoughts are?” I feel like it is ultimately so much better for our community, as it is not just one voice speaking into moments and lives. – Stacy
No one leader. No one with all the power–just equal friends doing life together. It seems like a group of friends got together to find a different way of living out what Jesus called us to do. And then we invited our friends to join us on this journey of life and faith. – Mike
- what is the hardest part about it?
Honestly, not much; it is no harder than when you decide to be friends with anyone. The ministry part is more life giving than taxing. – Karl
The learning curve! Also, too, I would say that it can be challenging as woman to be taken seriously apart from my role with the kids. Not really so much inside our community, but sometimes in conversations outside of the refuge. Something Karl said to me, the week that I was asked to be a part of the team still often lingers. He said ” Just so you know, we want you-who you are and what you bring to the table to be a part of our team. The fact that you are good with kids is just a bonus” – Stacy
I think the hardest part for me is how slowly things progress because all decisions are based on the ideas of all and not a central leader. The results are much better, but it takes more time. – Mike
i will add my perspective on this one–for me, what’s hard is how i have to give up some of what i want for the sake of others. sometimes what i want, we’re just not ready for. other times what i want is a bad idea altogether. submitting that to the team has been hard for me, but really good, too, because it’s forced me to let go of “my way now”.
- what is the best part about it?
There is absolutely no pressure. – Karl
Feeling so supported and getting to truly support my friends as well on this journey. – Stacy
Getting to work and hang out with friends and be part of each other’s lives. It certainly doesn’t feel like a job. I feel blessed being able to work with such good friends, both the co-pastors and the entire Refuge family. – Mike
- what are you learning about yourself through co-pastoring?
Sharing is a great teaching point, but when it bumps up against pride and ego it can smart. I do like being the center of attention, and to share that is sometimes an effort for me. – Karl
Wow, so much that I almost don’t know where to begin. The bottom line, though, is that I am learning what it means to bring my *whole* self to the table. I used to totally think that it was really only the competent and efficient parts of me that my team wanted. I have since realized that continuing to grow in transparency means not trying to put my “best face” forward. That mentality has helped make me a better overall friend and much better teammate. – Stacy
That I have “good power” I can use for good and “bad power” I can use for evil. I have much to learn to be able to do relationships really well. I am reminded of how much I need to keep my focus on the log in my eye and not the speck in the eyes of others. I am learning that love is the greatest healer, and if we trust the process thing usually work out well. – Mike
- what are you learning about christian community through co-pastoring?
Hmmm, I feel like such a rookie, and know so little about true community. Maybe how little I know is the biggest lesson so far. – Karl
I resonate with so much to learn, for sure. It is so freeing, however, as a woman, to be empowered to lead freely as well. I honestly don’t think about that fact until I run into a conversation with someone outside of our community, who has both spoken and unspoken limitations due to gender. I am also learning how hard it is to do life and live out the ways of Jesus every day. It’s so worth it, but for sure really hard to continually bump up against my own humanity. It’s humbling, but beautiful. – Stacy
It is harder than I thought it would be, but more rewarding than I would have imagined. Even people that you love can rub you wrong at times and I continue to learn that I can be annoying and arrogant at times as well. – Mike
- what are you learning about conflict through co-pastoring?
I feel way more empowered in that area. I am less afraid of it and it no longer paralyzes me. I have learned that it is not important to get it perfect and that waiting to get it ‘ just right’ is a devil trick. I am discovering if I just plow into it and trust that the relationship can handle it and it will not end the friendship. – Karl
I am learning how resolved conflict really strengthens the depth of a relationship. We talk through so much, and it is really helpful to know where each other’s sore spots are, and how to navigate in a way that honors everybody better. – Stacy
Life takes practice and I will never get it right. Conflict is hard, but no relationship can thrive without healthy conflict. It still scares me, but as I have seen it play out over our 5 years together– if everyone comes to the table in the spirit of love the end results are amazing. We need to trust our friend’s hearts. – Mike
- why do you think more people don’t try this leadership model?
It’s not very efficient, it does take more time to get some things done. Plus, you cannot have a big, personality driven church because it is too diffused for that. – Karl
It takes way more time and patience to make decisions, and to hear each of us out on a matter. There aren’t many solo decisions, and there is so much more consideration involved. – Stacy
It takes so long to get things done. It is hard to submit to each other. Let’s face it, we all want to be the star, boss, superstar, or big shot and unless that is put to rest, this won’t work. – Mike
- if someone was considering co-pastoring their faith community–whatever shape or form that might take–what is one word of advice you’d give them?
What do you have to lose? You’ll gain less pressure, better friends and a check on ego. Just focus on relationship and not tasks. – Karl
Get ready to learn way more than you bargained for! – Stacy
Be prepared to submit. Deflate your ego. Be prepared for conflict. Learn to be a friend, not a co worker. Hang on for a bumpy, but beautiful ride. – Mike
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i am so thankful for what i learn through sharing leadership. it kicks my butt sometimes and i want to run for the hills or get hired as an executive director somewhere where I can just be the boss. but the truth is that i’d be far too lonely & am ruined for anything else. the growth & beauty that can come from learning what it means to live in submitted community to each other is far too valuable.
i’d love to hear some of your thoughts. next up: some interviews with other co-pastors in different communities, awesome friends of mine who are living this out, too.
Read Morecopastoring part 2 – a video conversation
this is part 2 in a 5 part series i’m doing here on co-pastoring & shared leadership. if you missed it, you can watch the first video conversation with my friend & refuge teammate karl wheeler.
one of the things we talk about in this piece is the difference between roles & relationship. this is a place i think needs the most work when it comes to considering co-pastoring. if we focus on roles, then we look at “who can do this or that function” instead of looking at the bigger picture–relationship.
through relationship we learn each other’s giftedness, strengths, weaknesses, and figure out how to live and learn together. if we focus on roles, it becomes a rectangle on an org chart that needs to be filled with someone with those same skills. that means that if a person in that rectangle is called out of the community for some reason that we’d have to find someone to “replace” them in their role or function. this is so typical, really, in most every organization. we assume that we need someone who can do this or do that as opposed to finding people dedicated to learning to live and love and lead alongside one another in community.
this is a really hard shift to make when we are focused on building churches instead of cultivating communities. building churches often tends to point toward task, objectives, and strategies. cultivating communities, however, is about creating containers to practice the ways of Jesus. in this model, relationship & commitment to practice in community is more important than role and function.
this sometimes means there are gaps in filling the needs and that some of the work won’t get done in the way we hope for. in different ways over the years this has happened at the refuge with music & kids & administrative stuff. but instead of recruiting for it outside of us, we live with what we have in our community & respect the gap. it’s not easy, we feel the absence sometimes, but we try to learn to live with what we’ve got instead of working to find someone who can fit that “role” just to fill a spot that seems like it’s supposed to be filled.
the pushback to this usually is “but we need to make sure that we have people who can do this or that or otherwise the ministry won’t work.” my response is that maybe the part that needs to be learned isn’t how to make sure we have every angle covered but rather to trust, wait, and learn how to live without certain things together. in all kinds of ways, i think that’s leadership.
and practice isn’t about perfection. it’s about practice.
i also love how karl says that after all his years of seminary & pastor-training he had never even one class on how to be a friend, the actual skill that’s really needed in life together in missional community. shared leadership, to me, is somehow about real friendship.
so here you go, another 10 minute or so conversation about co-pastoring:
co-pastoring part 2 from kathy escobar on Vimeo.
what do you think of this idea of putting relationship above function when it comes to shared leadership?
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some thoughts on co-pastoring, part 1
when i first started this blog over 3 years ago i wrote a little post about shared leadership that still gets a lot of play–why i believe in co-pastoring. it makes me happy that people are at least considering the idea enough to do a google search on it & read more about it. 5 1/2 years ago i had never even heard of the word. now, i’m in the thick of it & wouldn’t do it any other way.
for me, the words co-pastoring & sharing leadership are synonymous. some churches & communities use the word “pastor” & some may not. the idea, though, is the same–no one person “at the top”. at the refuge, we use “co-pastor”, so for the sake of this conversation i’m going to stick with that terminology.
today marks the start of a short blog series about the ins and outs of co-pastoring. it will include a couple of video interviews with my friend and co-pastor teammate, karl wheeler, who was the catalyst behind actually starting the refuge and co-pastoring together (more on that in a minute), an interview with our co-pastor team at the refuge (there are currently 4 of us, 2 men & 2 women), and some responses from friends of mine in different parts of the country who either have or are co-pastoring.
i know for some of you this isn’t the most exciting topic in the world and you’re just not that interested in church leadership. i hope you’ll listen in anyway, because some of these ideas might resonate, especially on why much of the leadership you may have experienced in the past didn’t seem quite right somehow. i also know that many of you are leading in your communities in different shapes & forms and are wanting to explore shifts in what that could look like. these posts won’t have all the answers & there are no formulas to follow. but my hope is to encourage & challenge others that a different way is possible–that the idea of one leader in charge of it all isn’t necessarily the only way even though that’s what it always typically looks like in most every church, most every organization.
i’m going to start with a video conversation with my friend & co-pastor teammate karl. there are two of them, recorded on my mac webcam with no editing, no big preparation, just a way to hear more of what we’re doing & what it’s like for us. without karl, the refuge wouldn’t exist. he’s the one who encouraged me to step into co-lead pastoring with him & plant this little crazy community 5 1/2 years ago despite the obstacles. we’ve been through the war together, from getting the crap kicked out of us together on a big church staff to slugging through what it means to lead this wild, diverse, poor little church with a huge heart for people. in different ways, we’ve both tried to quit, to run, to throw in the towel, but by the grace of God we continue to stay in. i think it’s because somewhere down deep we know we’re learning something that we can’t learn any other way.
yeah, i have no doubt that co-pastoring is a place where mutual submission, loving our neighbor, and leaning into being our own unique parts of the Body of Christ is put to the test.
so here we go, part 1 of a 5 part series on co-pastoring:
copastoring part 1 from kathy escobar on Vimeo.
as always, love to hear your thoughts!
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ps: i added a new page on the blog that shares a little more about down we go & also includes a video trailer that my awesome friend & fellow refuge-ee craig spinks of recycle your faith put together that shares a little more about what’s inside (it’s different from the downward mobility one). some of you already saw it on facebook but thanks for passing the link on to those you think might like this kind of stuff!
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