Comments on: the difference between “cultivating communities” and “building churches” http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:25:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The Challenge of Cultivating Community « Urban Dweller http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3354 The Challenge of Cultivating Community « Urban Dweller Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:28:56 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3354 [...] we use to express church and actually cultivating community.  Kathy makes some excellent points.  Read her post.  I believe that it will cause you, as it did me, to think more deeply about fostering real [...] [...] we use to express church and actually cultivating community.  Kathy makes some excellent points.  Read her post.  I believe that it will cause you, as it did me, to think more deeply about fostering real [...]

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3257 kathyescobar Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:21:08 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3257 smudge - good to hear from you from afar....thanks for taking time to comment. i do miss "egypt" sometimes but the further i get away from it, the less and less. i think the part i once-in-a-while miss is the security and predictability of it all. but i'm pretty sure the early church wasn't too filled with security & predictability, ha ha! the wild is just that--wild & unpredictable. smudge – good to hear from you from afar….thanks for taking time to comment. i do miss “egypt” sometimes but the further i get away from it, the less and less. i think the part i once-in-a-while miss is the security and predictability of it all. but i’m pretty sure the early church wasn’t too filled with security & predictability, ha ha! the wild is just that–wild & unpredictable.

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3256 kathyescobar Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:07:46 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3256 <strong>becoming an apprentice</strong> - thanks for the link & your thoughts about becoming good wine. good stuff! <strong>jason </strong>- thanks for taking time to comment, nice to hear from you. the words "efficiency & control" are very good ones and describe it well. and our addiction to it is really pervasive, more than we probably even know. i always appreciate what's on your site, too. <strong>len</strong> - great to hear from you. i am always reading & one of these days hope we get to have a real conversation. i finished community & growth on my trip and haven't had that many pages dog-eared in a long, long time in a book. i had this quote underlined, that is for sure! thanks for the shirkey thoughts, too. becoming an apprentice – thanks for the link & your thoughts about becoming good wine. good stuff!

jason - thanks for taking time to comment, nice to hear from you. the words “efficiency & control” are very good ones and describe it well. and our addiction to it is really pervasive, more than we probably even know. i always appreciate what’s on your site, too.

len – great to hear from you. i am always reading & one of these days hope we get to have a real conversation. i finished community & growth on my trip and haven’t had that many pages dog-eared in a long, long time in a book. i had this quote underlined, that is for sure! thanks for the shirkey thoughts, too.

]]> By: smudge http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3246 smudge Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:00:10 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3246 same here Rob also in the U.K. thanks for writing the article Kathy same here Rob

also in the U.K.

thanks for writing the article Kathy

]]> By: len http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3240 len Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:23:35 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3240 Clay Shirky spells out some of the essential differences between a centrally controlled organization (what I tend to call a “congregation” or “aggregation” versus a true community). 1. Audiences are built. Communities grow. 2. Communities face a tradeoff between size and focus. 3. Participation matters more than quality. 4. You may own the software, but the community owns itself. 5. The community will want to build. Help it, or at least let it. “Broadcast connections can be created by a central organization, but [community] connections are created by the members for one another. Communities grow, rather than being built. New members of an audience are simply added to the existing pool, but new members of a community must be integrated. One of the most important things you can do to attract community is to give it a fertile environment in which to grow, and one of the most damaging things you can do is to try to force it to grow at a rapid pace or in a preset direction. “ Clay Shirky spells out some of the essential differences between a centrally controlled organization (what I tend to call a “congregation” or “aggregation” versus a true community).

1. Audiences are built. Communities grow.
2. Communities face a tradeoff between size and focus.
3. Participation matters more than quality.
4. You may own the software, but the community owns itself.
5. The community will want to build. Help it, or at least let it.

“Broadcast connections can be created by a central organization, but [community] connections are created by the members for one another. Communities grow, rather than being built. New members of an audience are simply added to the existing pool, but new members of a community must be integrated. One of the most important things you can do to attract community is to give it a fertile environment in which to grow, and one of the most damaging things you can do is to try to force it to grow at a rapid pace or in a preset direction. “

]]> By: len http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3239 len Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:20:24 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3239 btw, here is my favorite quote from "Community and Growth" .. The mission of a community is to give life to others, that is to say, to transmit new hope and new meaning to them. Mission is revealing to others their fundamental beauty, value and importance in the universe, their capacity to love, to grow and to do beautiful things and to meet God. Mission is transmitting to people a new inner freedom and hope; it is unlocking the doors of their being so that new energies can flow; it is taking away from their shoulders the terrible yoke of guilt and fear. To give life to people is to reveal to them that they are loved just as they are by God, with the mixture of good and evil, light and darkness that is in them; that the stone in front of their tomb in which all the dirt of their lives has been hidden can be rolled away. They are forgiven; they can live in freedom. Jean Vanier btw, here is my favorite quote from “Community and Growth” ..
The mission of a community is to give life to others, that is to say, to transmit new hope and new meaning to them. Mission is revealing to others their fundamental beauty, value and importance in the universe, their capacity to love, to grow and to do beautiful things and to meet God. Mission is transmitting to people a new inner freedom and hope; it is unlocking the doors of their being so that new energies can flow; it is taking away from their shoulders the terrible yoke of guilt and fear. To give life to people is to reveal to them that they are loved just as they are by God, with the mixture of good and evil, light and darkness that is in them; that the stone in front of their tomb in which all the dirt of their lives has been hidden can be rolled away. They are forgiven; they can live in freedom. Jean Vanier

]]> By: Len http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3238 Len Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:58:01 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3238 Great stuff!sureits messy, that's life. Stay true to the dream! Great stuff!sureits messy, that’s life. Stay true to the dream!

]]> By: Jason Fowler http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3227 Jason Fowler Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:00:14 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3227 Kathy, well said! Excellent thoughts. I think church as community is the paradigm JESUS established. GOD is all about relationships and living ecologies. We modern humans are all about machines and programmable outcomes. We've molded the Bride/Body/Church into our image of efficiency and control. But of course there is no real life in that. It's the difference to me between hyper-efficient factory farms and small, sustainably minded family farms. The question is not: 'is it working?' but we should ask: 'what kind of future are we cultivating?' Again, great thoughts! I very much agree. shalom! Jason Fowler Kathy, well said! Excellent thoughts.

I think church as community is the paradigm JESUS established. GOD is all about relationships and living ecologies. We modern humans are all about machines and programmable outcomes. We’ve molded the Bride/Body/Church into our image of efficiency and control. But of course there is no real life in that.

It’s the difference to me between hyper-efficient factory farms and small, sustainably minded family farms. The question is not: ‘is it working?’ but we should ask: ‘what kind of future are we cultivating?’

Again, great thoughts! I very much agree.
shalom!
Jason Fowler

]]> By: Becoming good wine… « just an apprentice http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3220 Becoming good wine… « just an apprentice Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:50:35 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3220 [...] Kathy Escobar writes about the difference between cultivating community and building churches.  Cultivating community requires a long view because real relationships with messy people (which we all are in some way or another) is hard.  Deep life change never happens in a snap.  And many Christians never stay around long enough in any one community to get to this level.  The crushing and aging process requires slogging it out over the long haul with people.  To hang in there even when it is brutal and our patience is tried.  [...] [...] Kathy Escobar writes about the difference between cultivating community and building churches.  Cultivating community requires a long view because real relationships with messy people (which we all are in some way or another) is hard.  Deep life change never happens in a snap.  And many Christians never stay around long enough in any one community to get to this level.  The crushing and aging process requires slogging it out over the long haul with people.  To hang in there even when it is brutal and our patience is tried.  [...]

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2010/01/14/the-difference-between-cultivating-communities-and-building-churches/#comment-3213 kathyescobar Sun, 17 Jan 2010 21:07:05 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=2672#comment-3213 <strong>jason </strong>- san diego is my fav city on the planet, we moved here from coronado 13 years ago, i still miss it every day and am always whining and complaining about the weather in colorado. i'll have to take a peek at your blog when i get back and learn a little more about what you're trying. best to you & your community as you step out in faith to live it all out together. <strong>glenn </strong>- thanks and it is fun to have these conversations and hear what others are doing & how much this thought resonates deep within for so many. thanks for your heart for "what could be"...i am glad to be part of CC & look forward to what continues to develop... <strong>jonathan</strong> -thanks for the link! how are things with you guys? <strong>tom</strong> - great to hear from you as always and i am glad this stirred up something inside. it's been a fun conversation. you have tasted it, you know what's possible, and as you know, once you've experienced it it is really hard to ever go back to "fast food" as sam said. margret - thanks for reading and that is my hope, whatever's here that someone could use to move or encourage them to live out some of these crazy kingdom principles i gladly pass on. murky is a good word! jason - san diego is my fav city on the planet, we moved here from coronado 13 years ago, i still miss it every day and am always whining and complaining about the weather in colorado. i’ll have to take a peek at your blog when i get back and learn a little more about what you’re trying. best to you & your community as you step out in faith to live it all out together.

glenn - thanks and it is fun to have these conversations and hear what others are doing & how much this thought resonates deep within for so many. thanks for your heart for “what could be”…i am glad to be part of CC & look forward to what continues to develop…

jonathan -thanks for the link! how are things with you guys?

tom – great to hear from you as always and i am glad this stirred up something inside. it’s been a fun conversation. you have tasted it, you know what’s possible, and as you know, once you’ve experienced it it is really hard to ever go back to “fast food” as sam said.

margret – thanks for reading and that is my hope, whatever’s here that someone could use to move or encourage them to live out some of these crazy kingdom principles i gladly pass on. murky is a good word!

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