Comments on: a view from the margins: divorced & on the outs http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs Wed, 16 May 2012 21:17:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2080 kathyescobar Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:13:34 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2080 mary - somehow i missed responding when i posted the last comment. thanks so much for your honesty. you are very courageous and i love what you said here: "But I know now that my continued healing depends on my willingness to face more of those people and let them wrestle with how to love and accept me." this takes a lot of guts but i know that amazing things can come of it and that both you & others will learn a lot in the process...thanks for sharing a piece of your journey with us! mary – somehow i missed responding when i posted the last comment. thanks so much for your honesty. you are very courageous and i love what you said here: “But I know now that my continued healing depends on my willingness to face more of those people and let them wrestle with how to love and accept me.” this takes a lot of guts but i know that amazing things can come of it and that both you & others will learn a lot in the process…thanks for sharing a piece of your journey with us!

   0 likes

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2068 kathyescobar Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:42:23 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2068 tom - thanks for sharing & i will go over there and take a look. i remember stumbling on your blog a while back before you posted here & so i need to go check it out finally! christine - so nice to hear from you & yes, it makes me sad. i think i have had a lot of my hope restored in the past few years in the wider community out here, especially in blog-land, where i know that there really is a sincere desire on the part of so many Christ-followers to redeem so much of our bad reputation... lisa - thanks for sharing & adding another perspective, too, from your journey. definitely another side to the ravages of divorce & you know the feeling well of being on the "outs" beth - thanks so much for sharing! i love your honesty here: "Incredibly, the loss of identity has been harder to recover from than the loss of the marriage. There is an internal voice that won’t shut up; constantly badgering me with doubts, questions and shame that daily threaten to silence me when I step out to minister to others." that's the part i hate the most, the insidious-ness of shame & that icky voice that can be so loud. and in terms of brokenness, i really do believe that we comfort others with the comfort we've received & that the more we are in touch with our pain & the depths of our heart, the safer we can become. peace to you.. randi - so great to hear from you and i'm glad your new community is going well, so fun! your passion for the elderly is so beautiful and it is so true, we will all be one day, won't we? and talk about how easily marginalized and cast aside and having no voice. keep raising the banner!!! katherine - "divorce police" okay that cracked me up. but not really because it can be so real. so interesting how we respond when pain hits, eh? i also i wonder how much hurt could be healed for people if someone at least called when they left and just at least had closure instead of just never been heard from again... tracy - oh how i love you! enough said. donna - see you tomorrow, can't wait. i'd love to hear your husband's perspective. phyllis - thanks for introducing me to jake...hope we can all get together for breakfast soon. so much to laugh (or cry, hahah) about. tom – thanks for sharing & i will go over there and take a look. i remember stumbling on your blog a while back before you posted here & so i need to go check it out finally!

christine – so nice to hear from you & yes, it makes me sad. i think i have had a lot of my hope restored in the past few years in the wider community out here, especially in blog-land, where i know that there really is a sincere desire on the part of so many Christ-followers to redeem so much of our bad reputation…

lisa – thanks for sharing & adding another perspective, too, from your journey. definitely another side to the ravages of divorce & you know the feeling well of being on the “outs”

beth – thanks so much for sharing! i love your honesty here: “Incredibly, the loss of identity has been harder to recover from than the loss of the marriage. There is an internal voice that won’t shut up; constantly badgering me with doubts, questions and shame that daily threaten to silence me when I step out to minister to others.” that’s the part i hate the most, the insidious-ness of shame & that icky voice that can be so loud. and in terms of brokenness, i really do believe that we comfort others with the comfort we’ve received & that the more we are in touch with our pain & the depths of our heart, the safer we can become. peace to you..

randi – so great to hear from you and i’m glad your new community is going well, so fun! your passion for the elderly is so beautiful and it is so true, we will all be one day, won’t we? and talk about how easily marginalized and cast aside and having no voice. keep raising the banner!!!

katherine – “divorce police” okay that cracked me up. but not really because it can be so real. so interesting how we respond when pain hits, eh? i also i wonder how much hurt could be healed for people if someone at least called when they left and just at least had closure instead of just never been heard from again…

tracy – oh how i love you! enough said.

donna – see you tomorrow, can’t wait. i’d love to hear your husband’s perspective.

phyllis – thanks for introducing me to jake…hope we can all get together for breakfast soon. so much to laugh (or cry, hahah) about.

   0 likes

]]> By: Phyllis Mathis http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2066 Phyllis Mathis Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:54:08 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2066 Jake, I count it an honor to be your friend. Kathy, thanks for sharing his story. Jake,
I count it an honor to be your friend. Kathy, thanks for sharing his story.

   0 likes

]]> By: DonnaV http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2062 DonnaV Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:09:59 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2062 "Jake", thank you for sharing your story...I can sure relate to the "WHYS!" in the middle of the night. It's neat seeing the compassion that you are extending to others that are experiencing the hurt you know so well. Kathy, thanks again for posting this series! I was telling my husband about it and he wants to read it. His first wife left him with their 2 young children & the church they had belonged to asked him to leave and not bring the kids back...his ex had sin cooties & they didn't want the germs in their midst. He still hurts from that & was encouraged to know that you were posting stories from other men with similar stories. “Jake”, thank you for sharing your story…I can sure relate to the “WHYS!” in the middle of the night. It’s neat seeing the compassion that you are extending to others that are experiencing the hurt you know so well.

Kathy, thanks again for posting this series! I was telling my husband about it and he wants to read it. His first wife left him with their 2 young children & the church they had belonged to asked him to leave and not bring the kids back…his ex had sin cooties & they didn’t want the germs in their midst. He still hurts from that & was encouraged to know that you were posting stories from other men with similar stories.

   0 likes

]]> By: Tracy Simmons http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2061 Tracy Simmons Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:04:34 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2061 Thanks for sharing, "Jake." This is the first post in this series where I found my blood boiling. I'm not one that's given to anger much, but as I read your story swear words were just bubbling up in me at how you were treated. I hate injustice and hypocrisy with a passion. I hate people being treated with gross unfairness. I hate judgment being dumped on people who need love and acceptance. My husband and I both used to be "in the ministry" (we left all that behind 11 years ago and now just meet with a small group in homes) so I know full well that what you are saying here is the truth--it is exactly what happens over and over again. I have this strange division going on in me right now--wanting to cry over your pain that has been caused so needlessly and then wanting to yell obscenities at the institution that has so perverted the gospel that it can let this very thing be played out day after day, year after year, in thousands of peoples lives. I'm just so sad that you had to go through such a painful thing and on top of it to have to face abandonment by the "christians" in your life at that time. If you're ever in Vermont, do look us up: My husband loves a good cigar on our front porch as well and would welcome the company any time! Thanks for sharing, “Jake.” This is the first post in this series where I found my blood boiling.

I’m not one that’s given to anger much, but as I read your story swear words were just bubbling up in me at how you were treated. I hate injustice and hypocrisy with a passion. I hate people being treated with gross unfairness. I hate judgment being dumped on people who need love and acceptance. My husband and I both used to be “in the ministry” (we left all that behind 11 years ago and now just meet with a small group in homes) so I know full well that what you are saying here is the truth–it is exactly what happens over and over again. I have this strange division going on in me right now–wanting to cry over your pain that has been caused so needlessly and then wanting to yell obscenities at the institution that has so perverted the gospel that it can let this very thing be played out day after day, year after year, in thousands of peoples lives. I’m just so sad that you had to go through such a painful thing and on top of it to have to face abandonment by the “christians” in your life at that time.

If you’re ever in Vermont, do look us up: My husband loves a good cigar on our front porch as well and would welcome the company any time!

   0 likes

]]> By: Katherine Gunn http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2060 Katherine Gunn Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:46:16 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2060 *Sheesh* Checking spelling before I post would be good. That first sentence... should say, '...<i>most</i> church poeple...' *Sheesh* Checking spelling before I post would be good. That first sentence… should say, ‘…most church poeple…’

   0 likes

]]> By: Katherine Gunn http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2059 Katherine Gunn Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:44:36 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2059 Man, there's nothing that brings out the condescension and self-righteousness in my church people than a 'brother' or 'sister' who gets divorced. "Jake," thanks for sharing your story. I grew up in church and saw a lot of ugliness. I am so sorry you were treated the way you were. I'm with you. I don't know if I will ever be able to be part of the 'church as I knew it' scene again. To much pain. Having never been married, I haven't been the direct target of the divorce police, but my parents were. And a very close friend. And I gave up a leadership position in my church - gave up my church - in favor of truth and walking along side a friend that the church abandoned. And it's funny. None of our fellow leaders ever contacted us to find out what was wrong or if we were okay. But God has walked us through a heck-of-a-lot and He is not done. I'm glad you have connected with Kathy. connections with people who are willing to be real make all the difference in the world. Man, there’s nothing that brings out the condescension and self-righteousness in my church people than a ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ who gets divorced.

“Jake,” thanks for sharing your story. I grew up in church and saw a lot of ugliness. I am so sorry you were treated the way you were. I’m with you. I don’t know if I will ever be able to be part of the ‘church as I knew it’ scene again. To much pain.

Having never been married, I haven’t been the direct target of the divorce police, but my parents were. And a very close friend. And I gave up a leadership position in my church – gave up my church – in favor of truth and walking along side a friend that the church abandoned. And it’s funny. None of our fellow leaders ever contacted us to find out what was wrong or if we were okay. But God has walked us through a heck-of-a-lot and He is not done. I’m glad you have connected with Kathy. connections with people who are willing to be real make all the difference in the world.

   0 likes

]]> By: mary http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2058 mary Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:24:19 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2058 I too am part of the "pastoral family casualty group". When I was divorced the world went silent. There were few people who reached to me when I was in a state of emotional collapse and unable to reach to anyone. I spent 6 months alone in a cabin where God began to recreate my broken soul. I eventually visited 8 churches, not too eager to stick around too long and let anyone close enough to hear my story. Too many questions, too much shame. Although there will always be those people who just don't know what to do with divorced people in the church, I also found that the opposite is true. I withdrew because of my own shame and my own assumptions and fear of being rejected. When I found the courage to face family and old friends and my former church, I found love. Acceptance. I found Christ. And yes, I also found rejection. But I know now that my continued healing depends on my willingness to face more of those people and let them wrestle with how to love and accept me. I too am part of the “pastoral family casualty group”. When I was divorced the world went silent. There were few people who reached to me when I was in a state of emotional collapse and unable to reach to anyone. I spent 6 months alone in a cabin where God began to recreate my broken soul. I eventually visited 8 churches, not too eager to stick around too long and let anyone close enough to hear my story. Too many questions, too much shame. Although there will always be those people who just don’t know what to do with divorced people in the church, I also found that the opposite is true. I withdrew because of my own shame and my own assumptions and fear of being rejected. When I found the courage to face family and old friends and my former church, I found love. Acceptance. I found Christ. And yes, I also found rejection. But I know now that my continued healing depends on my willingness to face more of those people and let them wrestle with how to love and accept me.

   0 likes

]]> By: Randi :) http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2057 Randi :) Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:50:16 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2057 Hey!! I am sorry I haven't commented recently. God is just moving so much in my life right now!! Thanks so much for this series Kathy. It's gut-checking... heart-touching... In each one of these in the series... I thought about the elderly and what so many in the oldest old category are going through right now. Their plight includes almost all these struggles listed..... yet sickness & age are not caused by any mistake and it's a path we will all travel if we stay on thsi earth long enough... it's something almost every single one of us will encounter one day. They are a people the church & country (government too) has all but given up on and turned their back seeing no hope there. It's not 'cool or popular' at all to help the elderly especially those sick & alone.... and it's heartbraeking to see them tossed aside. Nobody is willing to take care of people who aren't going to get better and who can't pay us back.... so do we truly have a haert of service if we always choose to help people who have high probability of change. Who have possibility to pay us back. Who will give us ego points when they get better and tell others all we did. I know that i'm not saying this correctly and I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get this all out real quick,. ANYWAY!! about this specific post --- this reminded me so so so so much about this book I just finished, Church Picnic... by shelby humphreys ---- is she your friend!? Oh man if you don't know her story or haven't read this book, you should!! :) It impacted me a lot. anyway - that's all I wanted to say right now. Love you all! :) Hey!!

I am sorry I haven’t commented recently. God is just moving so much in my life right now!!

Thanks so much for this series Kathy. It’s gut-checking… heart-touching…

In each one of these in the series… I thought about the elderly and what so many in the oldest old category are going through right now. Their plight includes almost all these struggles listed….. yet sickness & age are not caused by any mistake and it’s a path we will all travel if we stay on thsi earth long enough… it’s something almost every single one of us will encounter one day. They are a people the church & country (government too) has all but given up on and turned their back seeing no hope there. It’s not ‘cool or popular’ at all to help the elderly especially those sick & alone…. and it’s heartbraeking to see them tossed aside. Nobody is willing to take care of people who aren’t going to get better and who can’t pay us back…. so do we truly have a haert of service if we always choose to help people who have high probability of change. Who have possibility to pay us back. Who will give us ego points when they get better and tell others all we did.

I know that i’m not saying this correctly and I’m sorry. I’m just trying to get this all out real quick,.

ANYWAY!! about this specific post — this reminded me so so so so much about this book I just finished, Church Picnic… by shelby humphreys —- is she your friend!? Oh man if you don’t know her story or haven’t read this book, you should!! :) It impacted me a lot.

anyway – that’s all I wanted to say right now. Love you all! :)

   0 likes

]]> By: Beth Hoover http://kathyescobar.com/2009/02/16/a-view-from-the-margins-divorced-on-the-outs/#comment-2056 Beth Hoover Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:39:30 +0000 http://kathyescobar.com/?p=1539#comment-2056 Thanks for posting this story. I crave reading others' experiences that are similar to mine, because I personally don't know many ex-pastors that are divorced. Incredibly, the loss of identity has been harder to recover from than the loss of the marriage. There is an internal voice that won't shut up; constantly badgering me with doubts, questions and shame that daily threaten to silence me when I step out to minister to others. Funny thing is, I believe the things I have experienced have actually made me a more compassionate and safer leader. I can relate to others' brokenness and struggles in a real way that I never could before. Thanks for posting this story. I crave reading others’ experiences that are similar to mine, because I personally don’t know many ex-pastors that are divorced.

Incredibly, the loss of identity has been harder to recover from than the loss of the marriage. There is an internal voice that won’t shut up; constantly badgering me with doubts, questions and shame that daily threaten to silence me when I step out to minister to others.

Funny thing is, I believe the things I have experienced have actually made me a more compassionate and safer leader. I can relate to others’ brokenness and struggles in a real way that I never could before.

   0 likes

]]>