Comments on: a nifty chart for the journey: stages in our life of faith http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ sometimes it's fun, sometimes it just makes me dizzy... Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:37:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: restoringheart http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4032 restoringheart Wed, 07 Jul 2010 01:37:42 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-4032 Thank you for the information about your workshop. I live in Oregon and October is a very full month where I am involved in major community service events almost every weekend, so I won't be able to attend, but I will keep it in mind as I communicate with others across the nation. You are very right that those who understand being lost, captured, disillusioned, and who have had their faith falls short have an ability to relate and connect with others who are walking through those same things in ways many others don't understand. I have encountered few who understand my journey, but those who have are a real blessing and strength to me. There are so many who just need a little help to find their way. I am thankful for people like you who are finding ways to connect with many who have been left behind by other believers (out of lack of understanding and not hurtful intention). Sherie Thank you for the information about your workshop. I live in Oregon and October is a very full month where I am involved in major community service events almost every weekend, so I won’t be able to attend, but I will keep it in mind as I communicate with others across the nation. You are very right that those who understand being lost, captured, disillusioned, and who have had their faith falls short have an ability to relate and connect with others who are walking through those same things in ways many others don’t understand. I have encountered few who understand my journey, but those who have are a real blessing and strength to me.

There are so many who just need a little help to find their way. I am thankful for people like you who are finding ways to connect with many who have been left behind by other believers (out of lack of understanding and not hurtful intention).

Sherie

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4019 kathyescobar Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:08:02 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-4019 restoring the heart - thank you for reading and taking time to comment. i always like to meet people who have a passion for walking alongside the hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. and i always think the only people who can really do that are the ones who have somehow experienced it ourselves. i do think this model is the best one out there that really hits what so many of us have or are feeling/experiencing. the refuge hosted a workshop back in june 2007 called "walking wounded" for those who are hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. we laughed, we cried. we are doing another one in october of this year in denver, totally free, just a chance to get folks together for a while and learn that they're not the only ones. and they're not crazy. this was the link from the one 3 years ago: http://wounded.therefugeonline.org/. anyway, i am not sure where you are located but thought i'd pass it on. i look forward to hearing from you again! restoring the heart – thank you for reading and taking time to comment. i always like to meet people who have a passion for walking alongside the hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. and i always think the only people who can really do that are the ones who have somehow experienced it ourselves. i do think this model is the best one out there that really hits what so many of us have or are feeling/experiencing. the refuge hosted a workshop back in june 2007 called “walking wounded” for those who are hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. we laughed, we cried. we are doing another one in october of this year in denver, totally free, just a chance to get folks together for a while and learn that they’re not the only ones. and they’re not crazy. this was the link from the one 3 years ago: http://wounded.therefugeonline.org/. anyway, i am not sure where you are located but thought i’d pass it on. i look forward to hearing from you again!

]]> By: Stages of Faith (Hagberg & Guelich model of faith development) « Restoring The Heart http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4017 Stages of Faith (Hagberg & Guelich model of faith development) « Restoring The Heart Mon, 05 Jul 2010 05:40:33 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-4017 [...] http://www.janethagberg.com/critical_journey/index.htm http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/about/pdfs/JOURNEY_THROUGH_THE_WALL_Toby.pdf [...] [...] http://www.janethagberg.com/critical_journey/index.htm http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/about/pdfs/JOURNEY_THROUGH_THE_WALL_Toby.pdf [...]

]]> By: restoringheart http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4014 restoringheart Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:56:55 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-4014 Kathy, I came across your site this week as I was looking into Hagberg and Guelich's model. Thank you for the summary you provided, and for how you have tied it into your own journey and your teachings/leadings for others. The last few years of my life have been a journey of stage 4 and The Wall, but no one had ever shown me a model like this. I felt like I was losing my faith. I found your post on Jenga Faith and I have also described my wrestling in this way. After banging against that wall for a couple years, I crashed and burned into it last year. I reached a point where I had to either get through it or give up. Everything I believed and shaped my life around was laid on the line and I had to accept who I was (with ALL the faults) and accept who God was (not who I thought he was in my false images and expectations). It was incredibly hard but now that I have made it through much of that journey I know it was worth it. The wholeness I have found may appear as brokeness and weakness to others at times, but I have found a peace, comfort, conviction, and centering unlike anything I have ever known. I am now stepping up to walk with those who are disillusioned, lost, and hurting. Many of them may be at the same place I was for the last few years, and I want to be present to assure them that what they are going through is normal, good, purposeful, and beautiful. I liked your recent video where you discussed that Church as some experience it just isn't providing what they need to grow and change, and the point Hagberg and Guelich make that most evangelical churches only reach people at stages 2 and 3 really opened my eyes and heart. Keep sharing! Keep ministering and teaching. I think you are raising some great questions and bringing some insights that many others are not willing to dialogue about. I will be back to learn and grow more with you. Thank you! Kathy, I came across your site this week as I was looking into Hagberg and Guelich’s model. Thank you for the summary you provided, and for how you have tied it into your own journey and your teachings/leadings for others.

The last few years of my life have been a journey of stage 4 and The Wall, but no one had ever shown me a model like this. I felt like I was losing my faith. I found your post on Jenga Faith and I have also described my wrestling in this way. After banging against that wall for a couple years, I crashed and burned into it last year. I reached a point where I had to either get through it or give up. Everything I believed and shaped my life around was laid on the line and I had to accept who I was (with ALL the faults) and accept who God was (not who I thought he was in my false images and expectations). It was incredibly hard but now that I have made it through much of that journey I know it was worth it. The wholeness I have found may appear as brokeness and weakness to others at times, but I have found a peace, comfort, conviction, and centering unlike anything I have ever known.

I am now stepping up to walk with those who are disillusioned, lost, and hurting. Many of them may be at the same place I was for the last few years, and I want to be present to assure them that what they are going through is normal, good, purposeful, and beautiful. I liked your recent video where you discussed that Church as some experience it just isn’t providing what they need to grow and change, and the point Hagberg and Guelich make that most evangelical churches only reach people at stages 2 and 3 really opened my eyes and heart.

Keep sharing! Keep ministering and teaching. I think you are raising some great questions and bringing some insights that many others are not willing to dialogue about. I will be back to learn and grow more with you. Thank you!

]]> By: the wall & the wilderness « the carnival in my head http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-3446 the wall & the wilderness « the carnival in my head Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:07:46 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-3446 [...] of my all-time favorite carnival blog posts was called a nifty chart for the journey. it included a chart that i adapted from one of my best-reads-at-seminary called the critical [...] [...] of my all-time favorite carnival blog posts was called a nifty chart for the journey. it included a chart that i adapted from one of my best-reads-at-seminary called the critical [...]

]]> By: blueorchid8 http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-2814 blueorchid8 Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:57:19 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-2814 I wish I could be a part too :) I'll check out the videos, though. It looks like a good site. I think I have that book (critical journey)...it's just a friend took it off my hands right after I got it! :) I think now would be a better time to read it than before anyway. Thanks for your encouragement. I wish I could be a part too :) I’ll check out the videos, though. It looks like a good site. I think I have that book (critical journey)…it’s just a friend took it off my hands right after I got it! :) I think now would be a better time to read it than before anyway. Thanks for your encouragement.

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-2813 kathyescobar Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:11:18 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-2813 blueorchid - i am so glad you are reading & are feeling less alone in all of the craziness. we are doing a series of conversations in mid-september through mid-october called "doubt" and i wish you could be part. we're using some of the videos from www.recycleyourfaith.com, which is a venture of one of our friends and includes some great videos about some of these topics. this particular post is one of my all-time favs. i think back on this chart all the time, like i said, it was worth that $ i spent at seminary :) peace and hope to you on the journey. i believe many of us are finding a faith that is much stronger than we ever imagined even when so much of what we believed has been stripped away. you are not alone & you're definitely not crazy :) love, kathy blueorchid – i am so glad you are reading & are feeling less alone in all of the craziness. we are doing a series of conversations in mid-september through mid-october called “doubt” and i wish you could be part. we’re using some of the videos from http://www.recycleyourfaith.com, which is a venture of one of our friends and includes some great videos about some of these topics. this particular post is one of my all-time favs. i think back on this chart all the time, like i said, it was worth that $ i spent at seminary :) peace and hope to you on the journey. i believe many of us are finding a faith that is much stronger than we ever imagined even when so much of what we believed has been stripped away. you are not alone & you’re definitely not crazy :) love, kathy

]]> By: blueorchid8 http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-2801 blueorchid8 Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:39:37 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-2801 I'm not sure whether it was more encouraging to read what you wrote, Kathy, or to read the words of so many people going through the same things! What you said: it is also the stage that most outsiders will look at us and say “what in the $#*!^!+@ is happening with them?” others will think we are crazy, heretical, lost, stupid, unfaithful & a little (or maybe a lot) like the prodigal, hoping we’ll come back home as soon as possible. ...that is definitely how I feel about myself. Wondering if I can really believe that this is a good phase that is leading me closer to God, or am I really crazy, heretical, unfaithful, etc.? I have really amazing and gracious friends that don't treat me like that...but the voice of "church" is so ingrained in my head, that I feel a whole lot of fear. Wondering if I can really feel safe with God now that I've lost everything that used to make me feel safe with him. Reading these things makes me feel more like maybe I'm not lost. :) Thanks! I’m not sure whether it was more encouraging to read what you wrote, Kathy, or to read the words of so many people going through the same things!

What you said:
it is also the stage that most outsiders will look at us and say “what in the $#*!^!+@ is happening with them?” others will think we are crazy, heretical, lost, stupid, unfaithful & a little (or maybe a lot) like the prodigal, hoping we’ll come back home as soon as possible.

…that is definitely how I feel about myself. Wondering if I can really believe that this is a good phase that is leading me closer to God, or am I really crazy, heretical, unfaithful, etc.? I have really amazing and gracious friends that don’t treat me like that…but the voice of “church” is so ingrained in my head, that I feel a whole lot of fear. Wondering if I can really feel safe with God now that I’ve lost everything that used to make me feel safe with him.
Reading these things makes me feel more like maybe I’m not lost. :)
Thanks!

]]> By: kathyescobar http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-1985 kathyescobar Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:04:19 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-1985 martine - so sorry i never responded to your comment way back when. i just realized this! yes, i think that this chart does not cover every single person's experiences by any means. it is interesting that the 12 steps are so helpful in helping people get in touch with so much of the deeper stuff earlier on. thanks for sharing. liz - thanks for the link. i need to check out that theocentric article one of these days :) rob - thanks for stopping by, sorry that i am just now getting back int eh groove, but haven't read that jamieson book but i'd love to hear more. and if that is where you are at, you are definitely in good company here! martine – so sorry i never responded to your comment way back when. i just realized this! yes, i think that this chart does not cover every single person’s experiences by any means. it is interesting that the 12 steps are so helpful in helping people get in touch with so much of the deeper stuff earlier on. thanks for sharing.

liz – thanks for the link. i need to check out that theocentric article one of these days :)

rob – thanks for stopping by, sorry that i am just now getting back int eh groove, but haven’t read that jamieson book but i’d love to hear more. and if that is where you are at, you are definitely in good company here!

]]> By: rob http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-1961 rob Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:45:47 +0000 http://kathyescobar.wordpress.com/?p=211#comment-1961 Hey there, just found your blog. I realize this is an old post, but the subject is of great interest. I'm wondering if anyone has read "A Churchless Faith" by Jamieson, and if so whether they think it does justice to this topic? I feel like at the Wall and in Stage 4, and ready to leave church. Hey there, just found your blog. I realize this is an old post, but the subject is of great interest. I’m wondering if anyone has read “A Churchless Faith” by Jamieson, and if so whether they think it does justice to this topic? I feel like at the Wall and in Stage 4, and ready to leave church.

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