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	<title>Comments on: a nifty chart for the journey: stages in our life of faith</title>
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		<title>By: DebLMC</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-22894</link>
		<dc:creator>DebLMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-22894</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a recent lurker here and would like to add what I&#039;ve learned to this wonderful post with such insightful, pained, and poignant comments.

Although charting can be helpful, having categories is the same kind of constrictive systematic thinking so many of us have fled in disgust. I&#039;ve experienced what you all have, and it&#039;s ugly, anguished, and sprawling, and not neatly contained within a nice category box. That said, I&#039;ve been circling through 4-6 for a couple decades (why limit 6 to Mother Theresa?)

What I&#039;ve discovered over time is that there isn&#039;t simply one wall. There are walls of differing sizes and heights, in differing areas of our lives--faith, emotions, family, abusive pasts, church indoctrination, thought, behavior, and practice, and each is a refining fire. To think we have only one wall will lead to discouragement when the next one looms.

Sometimes a wall is in one area, sometimes it will cover all at once. Walls require an incredible leap of faith, especially when we&#039;re afraid, with a faith so damaged that we don&#039;t even believe there is another side. And as some have pointed out, we&#039;re scared of joining whatever tribe there and becoming strangers to ourselves. 

But a jacket gets too small and it&#039;s a straitjacket.

Two of my favorite songs are by Sara Groves, and both are about wall experiences. Painting Pictures in Egypt deals with pain and fear in leaving security, and Maybe There&#039;s A Loving God is about venturing beyond boxes and fixes in our hesitant search for God.

I also love to encourage others who are struggling, to help them have the courage to recognize walls, take them on, and know that the other side is worth it. Those of us who are &quot;two steps ahead&quot; can light their paths, even if no one lighted ours, and comfort them on the way.

I write this as I am again struggling with another wall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a recent lurker here and would like to add what I&#8217;ve learned to this wonderful post with such insightful, pained, and poignant comments.</p>
<p>Although charting can be helpful, having categories is the same kind of constrictive systematic thinking so many of us have fled in disgust. I&#8217;ve experienced what you all have, and it&#8217;s ugly, anguished, and sprawling, and not neatly contained within a nice category box. That said, I&#8217;ve been circling through 4-6 for a couple decades (why limit 6 to Mother Theresa?)</p>
<p>What I&#8217;ve discovered over time is that there isn&#8217;t simply one wall. There are walls of differing sizes and heights, in differing areas of our lives&#8211;faith, emotions, family, abusive pasts, church indoctrination, thought, behavior, and practice, and each is a refining fire. To think we have only one wall will lead to discouragement when the next one looms.</p>
<p>Sometimes a wall is in one area, sometimes it will cover all at once. Walls require an incredible leap of faith, especially when we&#8217;re afraid, with a faith so damaged that we don&#8217;t even believe there is another side. And as some have pointed out, we&#8217;re scared of joining whatever tribe there and becoming strangers to ourselves. </p>
<p>But a jacket gets too small and it&#8217;s a straitjacket.</p>
<p>Two of my favorite songs are by Sara Groves, and both are about wall experiences. Painting Pictures in Egypt deals with pain and fear in leaving security, and Maybe There&#8217;s A Loving God is about venturing beyond boxes and fixes in our hesitant search for God.</p>
<p>I also love to encourage others who are struggling, to help them have the courage to recognize walls, take them on, and know that the other side is worth it. Those of us who are &#8220;two steps ahead&#8221; can light their paths, even if no one lighted ours, and comfort them on the way.</p>
<p>I write this as I am again struggling with another wall.</p>
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		<title>By: Mar</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-16478</link>
		<dc:creator>Mar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-16478</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ll ever see this comment since yours was made in 2008 ... but your comment that you&#039;re now &quot;ruined for the old ways you used to do life&quot; really resonates with me.  The sense of no going back ... I wonder:  is this what Jesus&#039; closest disciples felt when He said, &quot;Follow me&quot;?  They didn&#039;t know what it would mean or where they would go ... they simply knew they could be nowhere else but with Him.  Others began to follow and turned back when the way started to mean suffering.  It does seem there is a &quot;no turning back&quot; point -- when the journey is beyond uncomfortable, but you know there is no road back to what once was.  It&#039;s only Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ll ever see this comment since yours was made in 2008 &#8230; but your comment that you&#8217;re now &#8220;ruined for the old ways you used to do life&#8221; really resonates with me.  The sense of no going back &#8230; I wonder:  is this what Jesus&#8217; closest disciples felt when He said, &#8220;Follow me&#8221;?  They didn&#8217;t know what it would mean or where they would go &#8230; they simply knew they could be nowhere else but with Him.  Others began to follow and turned back when the way started to mean suffering.  It does seem there is a &#8220;no turning back&#8221; point &#8212; when the journey is beyond uncomfortable, but you know there is no road back to what once was.  It&#8217;s only Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Stages of faith &#8211; Intro &#124; freshwaterflow</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-7836</link>
		<dc:creator>Stages of faith &#8211; Intro &#124; freshwaterflow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-7836</guid>
		<description>[...] In writing the following blogs I have drawn from the following blog sources: Theocentric. Restoring the Heart. Kathy Escobar. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In writing the following blogs I have drawn from the following blog sources: Theocentric. Restoring the Heart. Kathy Escobar. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stadia in geloof &#8211; Intro &#124; freshwaterflow</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-7832</link>
		<dc:creator>Stadia in geloof &#8211; Intro &#124; freshwaterflow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-7832</guid>
		<description>[...] Kathy Escobar. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kathy Escobar. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl Martin</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4532</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-4532</guid>
		<description>Great blog and comments. Well done</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog and comments. Well done</p>
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		<title>By: restoringheart</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator>restoringheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 01:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-4032</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the information about your workshop. I live in Oregon and October is a very full month where I am involved in major community service events almost every weekend, so I won&#039;t be able to attend, but I will keep it in mind as I communicate with others across the nation. You are very right that those who understand being lost, captured, disillusioned, and who have had their faith falls short have an ability to relate and connect with others who are walking through those same things in ways many others don&#039;t understand. I have encountered few who understand my journey, but those who have are a real blessing and strength to me. 

There are so many who just need a little help to find their way. I am thankful for people like you who are finding ways to connect with many who have been left behind by other believers (out of lack of understanding and not hurtful intention). 

Sherie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the information about your workshop. I live in Oregon and October is a very full month where I am involved in major community service events almost every weekend, so I won&#8217;t be able to attend, but I will keep it in mind as I communicate with others across the nation. You are very right that those who understand being lost, captured, disillusioned, and who have had their faith falls short have an ability to relate and connect with others who are walking through those same things in ways many others don&#8217;t understand. I have encountered few who understand my journey, but those who have are a real blessing and strength to me. </p>
<p>There are so many who just need a little help to find their way. I am thankful for people like you who are finding ways to connect with many who have been left behind by other believers (out of lack of understanding and not hurtful intention). </p>
<p>Sherie</p>
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		<title>By: kathyescobar</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4019</link>
		<dc:creator>kathyescobar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-4019</guid>
		<description>restoring the heart - thank you for reading and taking time to comment.  i always like to meet people who have a passion for walking alongside the hurt, disillusioned, and lonely.  and i always think the only people who can really do that are the ones who have somehow experienced it ourselves.  i do think this model is the best one out there that really hits what so many of us have or are feeling/experiencing.  the refuge hosted a workshop back in june 2007 called &quot;walking wounded&quot; for those who are hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. we laughed, we cried.  we are doing another one in october of this year in denver, totally free, just a chance to get folks together for a while and learn that they&#039;re not the only ones. and they&#039;re not crazy.  this was the link from the one 3 years ago:  http://wounded.therefugeonline.org/.  anyway, i am not sure where you are located but thought i&#039;d pass it on.  i look forward to hearing from you again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>restoring the heart &#8211; thank you for reading and taking time to comment.  i always like to meet people who have a passion for walking alongside the hurt, disillusioned, and lonely.  and i always think the only people who can really do that are the ones who have somehow experienced it ourselves.  i do think this model is the best one out there that really hits what so many of us have or are feeling/experiencing.  the refuge hosted a workshop back in june 2007 called &#8220;walking wounded&#8221; for those who are hurt, disillusioned, and lonely. we laughed, we cried.  we are doing another one in october of this year in denver, totally free, just a chance to get folks together for a while and learn that they&#8217;re not the only ones. and they&#8217;re not crazy.  this was the link from the one 3 years ago:  <a href="http://wounded.therefugeonline.org/" rel="nofollow">http://wounded.therefugeonline.org/</a>.  anyway, i am not sure where you are located but thought i&#8217;d pass it on.  i look forward to hearing from you again!</p>
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		<title>By: Stages of Faith (Hagberg &#38; Guelich model of faith development) &#171; Restoring The Heart</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4017</link>
		<dc:creator>Stages of Faith (Hagberg &#38; Guelich model of faith development) &#171; Restoring The Heart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 05:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-4017</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.janethagberg.com/critical_journey/index.htm http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/ http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/about/pdfs/JOURNEY_THROUGH_THE_WALL_Toby.pdf    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.janethagberg.com/critical_journey/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.janethagberg.com/critical_journey/index.htm</a> <a href="http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/" rel="nofollow">http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/</a> <a href="http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/about/pdfs/JOURNEY_THROUGH_THE_WALL_Toby.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/about/pdfs/JOURNEY_THROUGH_THE_WALL_Toby.pdf</a>    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: restoringheart</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-4014</link>
		<dc:creator>restoringheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-4014</guid>
		<description>Kathy, I came across your site this week as I was looking into Hagberg and Guelich&#039;s model. Thank you for the summary you provided, and for how you have tied it into your own journey and your teachings/leadings for others. 

The last few years of my life have been a journey of stage 4 and The Wall, but no one had ever shown me a model like this. I felt like I was losing my faith. I found your post on Jenga Faith and I have also described my wrestling in this way. After banging against that wall for a couple years, I crashed and burned into it last year. I reached a point where I had to either get through it or give up. Everything I believed and shaped my life around was laid on the line and I had to accept who I was (with ALL the faults) and accept who God was (not who I thought he was in my false images and expectations). It was incredibly hard but now that I have made it through much of that journey I know it was worth it. The wholeness I have found may appear as brokeness and weakness to others at times, but I have found a peace, comfort, conviction, and centering unlike anything I have ever known. 

I am now stepping up to walk with those who are disillusioned, lost, and hurting. Many of them may be at the same place I was for the last few years, and I want to be present to assure them that what they are going through is normal, good, purposeful, and beautiful. I liked your recent video where you discussed that Church as some experience it just isn&#039;t providing what they need to grow and change, and the point Hagberg and Guelich make that most evangelical churches only reach people at stages 2 and 3 really opened my eyes and heart. 

Keep sharing! Keep ministering and teaching. I think you are raising some great questions and bringing some insights that many others are not willing to dialogue about. I will be back to learn and grow more with you. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathy, I came across your site this week as I was looking into Hagberg and Guelich&#8217;s model. Thank you for the summary you provided, and for how you have tied it into your own journey and your teachings/leadings for others. </p>
<p>The last few years of my life have been a journey of stage 4 and The Wall, but no one had ever shown me a model like this. I felt like I was losing my faith. I found your post on Jenga Faith and I have also described my wrestling in this way. After banging against that wall for a couple years, I crashed and burned into it last year. I reached a point where I had to either get through it or give up. Everything I believed and shaped my life around was laid on the line and I had to accept who I was (with ALL the faults) and accept who God was (not who I thought he was in my false images and expectations). It was incredibly hard but now that I have made it through much of that journey I know it was worth it. The wholeness I have found may appear as brokeness and weakness to others at times, but I have found a peace, comfort, conviction, and centering unlike anything I have ever known. </p>
<p>I am now stepping up to walk with those who are disillusioned, lost, and hurting. Many of them may be at the same place I was for the last few years, and I want to be present to assure them that what they are going through is normal, good, purposeful, and beautiful. I liked your recent video where you discussed that Church as some experience it just isn&#8217;t providing what they need to grow and change, and the point Hagberg and Guelich make that most evangelical churches only reach people at stages 2 and 3 really opened my eyes and heart. </p>
<p>Keep sharing! Keep ministering and teaching. I think you are raising some great questions and bringing some insights that many others are not willing to dialogue about. I will be back to learn and grow more with you. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: the wall &#38; the wilderness &#171; the carnival in my head</title>
		<link>http://kathyescobar.com/2008/06/10/a-nifty-chart-for-the-journe/#comment-3446</link>
		<dc:creator>the wall &#38; the wilderness &#171; the carnival in my head</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathyescobar.com/?p=211#comment-3446</guid>
		<description>[...] of my all-time favorite carnival blog posts was called a nifty chart for the journey. it included a chart that i adapted from one of my best-reads-at-seminary called the critical [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of my all-time favorite carnival blog posts was called a nifty chart for the journey. it included a chart that i adapted from one of my best-reads-at-seminary called the critical [...]</p>
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